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I want a Tory govt.

I want a Tory govt.

Old Nov 26th 2019, 11:38 am
  #16  
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Default Re: I want a Tory govt.

Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post


And what proportion of those allegations are substantial or legitimate?
Allegations are just that, allegations.
I assume he's heard about the Tory supporter (who thanked May for her cooperation and congratulated Johnson on becoming PM not so long age), the Chief Rabbi, and who is now smearing Corbyn.
I think Johnson has asked him to release his ''statement'' at this moment since the GE is slipping away from him ?

Spoiler:

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Old Nov 26th 2019, 11:40 am
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Default Re: I want a Tory govt.

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
Allegations are just that, allegations.
I assume he's heard about the Tory supporter (who thanked May for her cooperation and congratulated Johnson on becoming PM not so long age), the Chief Rabbi, and who is now smearing Corbyn.
I think Johnson has asked him to release his ''statement'' at this moment since the GE is slipping away from him ?

Spoiler:

VG Anne. This is what we need, facts like these. Too much smearing going on.
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Old Nov 26th 2019, 11:48 am
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Default Re: I want a Tory govt.

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
Allegations are just that, allegations.
I assume he's heard about the Tory supporter (who thanked May for her cooperation and congratulated Johnson on becoming PM not so long age), the Chief Rabbi, and who is now smearing Corbyn.
I think Johnson has asked him to release his ''statement'' at this moment since the GE is slipping away from him ?

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
VG Anne. This is what we need, facts like these. Too much smearing going on.
I thought this was quite well put.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ive-government

I'm afraid the OP has fallen in with the wrong crowd
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Old Nov 26th 2019, 11:49 am
  #19  
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Default Re: I want a Tory govt.

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
VG Anne. This is what we need, facts like these. Too much smearing going on.
'
Far too much, no Labour parliamentary candidates have been suspended for anti-semitic remarks but two Tories and 1 libdem have. Incidentally Labour have had a Jewish leader and candidate for PM, Ed Miliband.
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Old Nov 26th 2019, 11:56 am
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Default Re: I want a Tory govt.

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
Allegations are just that, allegations.
I assume he's heard about the Tory supporter (who thanked May for her cooperation and congratulated Johnson on becoming PM not so long age), the Chief Rabbi, and who is now smearing Corbyn.
I think Johnson has asked him to release his ''statement'' at this moment since the GE is slipping away from him ?

Spoiler:

I'm sure those allegations wil be investigated... https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...itics-45030552
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Old Nov 26th 2019, 12:48 pm
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Default Re: I want a Tory govt.

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
VG Anne. This is what we need, facts like these. Too much smearing going on.
Why is it that most Tory supporters, instead of making their case, attack Labour ?
And that comes down, all the way from the Tory Top !
.
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Old Nov 26th 2019, 12:52 pm
  #22  
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Default Re: I want a Tory govt.

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
Why is it that most Tory supporters, instead of making their case, attack Labour ?
And that comes down, all the way from the Tory Top !
.
I didn't think my opinion of the OP could get any lower. How wrong I was.
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Old Nov 26th 2019, 1:06 pm
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Default Re: I want a Tory govt.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
I thought this was quite well put.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ive-government

I'm afraid the OP has fallen in with the wrong crowd
Yes, reasonably balanced. It seems there is a pro-Israel fanatacism amongst some Jews, and anything one says (even if Jewish) that in any way does not support the Zionist narrative is somehow anti-semtic. It's a bit like extreeemists everywhere, the "you're either for us or against us" mentality. However, Labour has done a very piss poor job of explaining this, and so the allegations continue to swirl. Jezza should address it head on not just provide dry denials.
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Old Nov 26th 2019, 1:33 pm
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Default Re: I want a Tory govt.

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Yes, reasonably balanced. It seems there is a pro-Israel fanatacism amongst some Jews, and anything one says (even if Jewish) that in any way does not support the Zionist narrative is somehow anti-semtic. It's a bit like extreeemists everywhere, the "you're either for us or against us" mentality. However, Labour has done a very piss poor job of explaining this, and so the allegations continue to swirl. Jezza should address it head on not just provide dry denials.

On the plus side for Labour, I would put these excerpts:

"It doesn’t follow, though, that Labour is an institutionally antisemitic party. Nobody can identify any specific policies or threats made by the Labour leadership against Jewish people. Nobody accuses the vast majority of Labour MPs or activists of being antisemitic. Indeed, the party is full of people who are appalled by antisemitism and want to stamp it out...

...Put simply, it’s hard to see a Tory government as a price worth paying for abandoning Labour. Brexit is of course the big issue – and as things stand, under Boris Johnson we are heading for an extremely basic trade deal in December 2020 or none at all. But this also goes well beyond Brexit. There are millions of people who have already suffered under nearly ten years of Tory rule and cannot afford another five: people who are homeless, or access food banks, or depend on schools, and a health service cut to the bone....

Antisemitism exists across Britain’s political spectrum. This week both Tory and Liberal Democrat candidates have been suspended for offensive remarks. We also need to discuss other forms of racism. It is not whataboutery to point to the endemic problem of Islamophobia in the Conservative party, or to note the prime minister’s description of African people as “piccaninnies” with “watermelon smiles”, or his likening of Muslim women to letterboxes, which reportedly provoked a surge in anti-Muslim attacks, or his leadership of a referendum campaign that threatened voters with the arrival of 76 million Turkish migrants. The only candidate for prime minister who has repeatedly written racist things and promoted racist policies is Johnson......

Xenophobia and anti-migrant sentiment are not simply present within the Tory party, but underlie its whole election platform. This week Matt Hancock tweeted disparagingly about the International Health Service”, while Priti Patel has enthused about ending free movement. Brexit has cemented the Tories as a party of English nationalism, able to attract the tacit support of Nigel Farage and other figures from the hard right.
History shows us that a political climate hostile to foreigners and minorities will not spare Jewish people. The Community Security Trust recorded a 30% increase in antisemitic attacks in the months following the Brexit referendum. No government can ensure the safety of Jewish people while it simultaneously promotes an exclusionary discourse around migration and nationality."
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Old Nov 26th 2019, 1:34 pm
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Default Re: I want a Tory govt.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
On the plus side for Labour, I would put these excerpts:

"It doesn’t follow, though, that Labour is an institutionally antisemitic party. Nobody can identify any specific policies or threats made by the Labour leadership against Jewish people. Nobody accuses the vast majority of Labour MPs or activists of being antisemitic. Indeed, the party is full of people who are appalled by antisemitism and want to stamp it out...

...Put simply, it’s hard to see a Tory government as a price worth paying for abandoning Labour. Brexit is of course the big issue – and as things stand, under Boris Johnson we are heading for an extremely basic trade deal in December 2020 or none at all. But this also goes well beyond Brexit. There are millions of people who have already suffered under nearly ten years of Tory rule and cannot afford another five: people who are homeless, or access food banks, or depend on schools, and a health service cut to the bone....Antisemitism exists across Britain’s political spectrum. This week both Tory and Liberal Democrat candidates have been suspended for offensive remarks. We also need to discuss other forms of racism. It is not whataboutery to point to the endemic problem of Islamophobia in the Conservative party, or to note the prime minister’s description of African people as “piccaninnies” with “watermelon smiles”, or his likening of Muslim women to letterboxes, which reportedly provoked a surge in anti-Muslim attacks, or his leadership of a referendum campaign that threatened voters with the arrival of 76 million Turkish migrants. The only candidate for prime minister who has repeatedly written racist things and promoted racist policies is Johnson......Xenophobia and anti-migrant sentiment are not simply present within the Tory party, but underlie its whole election platform. This week Matt Hancock tweeted disparagingly about the International Health Service”, while Priti Patel has enthused about ending free movement. Brexit has cemented the Tories as a party of English nationalism, able to attract the tacit support of Nigel Farage and other figures from the hard right.
History shows us that a political climate hostile to foreigners and minorities will not spare Jewish people. The Community Security Trust recorded a 30% increase in antisemitic attacks in the months following the Brexit referendum. No government can ensure the safety of Jewish people while it simultaneously promotes an exclusionary discourse around migration and nationality."
Erm, yes I read the article...

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Old Nov 26th 2019, 1:37 pm
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Default Re: I want a Tory govt.

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Erm, yes I read the article...
I'm sure you did. In fact, we are discussing it so I mentioned some parts that I thought were especially telling.
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Old Nov 26th 2019, 6:44 pm
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Default Re: I want a Tory govt.

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Yes, reasonably balanced. It seems there is a pro-Israel fanatacism amongst some Jews, and anything one says (even if Jewish) that in any way does not support the Zionist narrative is somehow anti-semtic. It's a bit like extreeemists everywhere, the "you're either for us or against us" mentality. However, Labour has done a very piss poor job of explaining this, and so the allegations continue to swirl. Jezza should address it head on not just provide dry denials.
I think this unprecedented intervention by the Chief Rabbi is very unfortunate indeed. He himself seems to be a reasonably reality-based person. He’s of South African ancestry, his wife is from Zimbabwe. Both have been engaged in anti-apartheid activities in earlier times. The chief rabbi has encouraged the cause of allowing women a greater role in the rabbinate. He’s encouraged LGBT rights in orthodox communities. But, I think he’s a bit of a cheerleader for the Israeli government - anyone who criticizes them is an antisemite etc.

This will play into the Johnson & Trump playbook. It will expose the Jewish community in the UK to an undeserved accusation of supporting the Russia/Israel/Trump axis. Just what they don’t need.
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Old Nov 26th 2019, 8:07 pm
  #28  
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Default Re: I want a Tory govt.

Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post


I think this unprecedented intervention by the Chief Rabbi is very unfortunate indeed. He himself seems to be a reasonably reality-based person. He’s of South African ancestry, his wife is from Zimbabwe. Both have been engaged in anti-apartheid activities in earlier times. The chief rabbi has encouraged the cause of allowing women a greater role in the rabbinate. He’s encouraged LGBT rights in orthodox communities. But, I think he’s a bit of a cheerleader for the Israeli government - anyone who criticizes them is an antisemite etc.

This will play into the Johnson & Trump playbook. It will expose the Jewish community in the UK to an undeserved accusation of supporting the Russia/Israel/Trump axis. Just what they don’t need.
The Rabbi is a great mate of Johnson's, and also a big friend of Netanyahu. It seems to me that a lot of his anti Corbyn stance may, just may, have a lot to do with the fact that if Jeremy becomes PM then the UK will stop arms sales to Israel.
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Old Nov 26th 2019, 8:19 pm
  #29  
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Default Re: I want a Tory govt.

Originally Posted by mikelincs View Post
The Rabbi is a great mate of Johnson's, and also a big friend of Netanyahu. It seems to me that a lot of his anti Corbyn stance may, just may, have a lot to do with the fact that if Jeremy becomes PM then the UK will stop arms sales to Israel.
I assumed as much. Disgraceful that he chose to intervene.
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Old Nov 26th 2019, 8:23 pm
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Default Re: I want a Tory govt.

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
I assumed as much. Disgraceful that he chose to intervene.
I believe that it was deliberately timed to be announced the day Jeremy was due to be 'shouted at erm sorry Interviewed' by O'Neil, keep the conversation away from the manifesto.
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