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-   -   I don't really know where to put this (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/i-dont-really-know-where-put-927002/)

Lion in Winter Aug 8th 2019 9:13 pm

Re: I don't really know where to put this
 

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 12720611)
You were just trulling, admit it.

If that's what you think, ignore the thread. Easy.

Jerseygirl Aug 8th 2019 9:14 pm

Re: I don't really know where to put this
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 12720608)
I must remember we're not allowed to discuss anything that's already ben discussed in another place.

And BTW...I didn't start a thread on this news item, it was a general "I'm astounded thread" and I've already said that a couple of times too. :rolleyes:

You were quite right to open this thread in this forum.

I do not see this as trolling...it is TIO afterall.

scrubbedexpat098 Aug 8th 2019 9:48 pm

Re: I don't really know where to put this
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12720614)
On this argument we had better close all the threads about brexit then. And, in fact, any news item. TIO is for discussing potentially tricky subjects. Why would there be a problem opening a thread to talk about a current news item that a poster finds shocking? If other posters find it too difficult to discuss, they can ignore the thread. I ignore stuff on here all the time :p

Its not difficult to discuss though, but if we're all supposed to be outraged by what appears to be a genuine if insensitive mistake, then what will we have left when this sort of thing happens on purpose? As I say, if this happens again they deserve everything they get, but think of it this way, it's 2019, this is the first time a black man has been photographed being led by a rope in Texas, that means one of two things. It's either the first time this method has been used in a very long time, or its a regular occurrence but up til now only with white guys so who cares. If there's any outrage should be had here it's that an arrested man was being led by rope along the road, and it should be irrelevant of skin tone. Trouble is that skin tone is the very first thing that many people look at because that's what their care factor is dependent upon.

How we ever expect to confine racism to the history books all the while this is the case is a mystery to me.


BristolUK Aug 8th 2019 9:56 pm

Re: I don't really know where to put this
 

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 12720632)
Its not difficult to discuss though, but if we're all supposed to be outraged by what appears to be a genuine if insensitive mistake...

The idea is not that they made a mistake but that they didn't even consider how it might look. That is the astounding part.

That it has apparently been resolved is irrelevant when the astonishing part - to me - is that it happened in the first place.




scrubbedexpat098 Aug 8th 2019 10:12 pm

Re: I don't really know where to put this
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 12720635)
The idea is not that they made a mistake but that they didn't even consider how it might look. That is the astounding part.

That it has apparently been resolved is irrelevant when the astonishing part - to me - is that it happened in the first place.

Perhaps their insensitivity was due to colour blindness.

It happened, they've apologized. Accept the apology and move on. All eyes are upon them now, so they won't be doing it again.

Dredging crap like this up when it's done and dusted serves only to perpetuate any divide between us.

scrubbedexpat097 Aug 8th 2019 11:24 pm

Re: I don't really know where to put this
 

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 12720639)
Perhaps their insensitivity was due to colour blindness.

It happened, they've apologized. Accept the apology and move on. All eyes are upon them now, so they won't be doing it again.

Dredging crap like this up when it's done and dusted serves only to perpetuate any divide between us.

It will happen again. Not exactly the same way but believe me it will happen. And it doesn't need to be to be pushed aside. That's part of the problem.

Jerseygirl Aug 9th 2019 12:52 am

Re: I don't really know where to put this
 

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 12720639)
Perhaps their insensitivity was due to colour blindness.

It happened, they've apologized. Accept the apology and move on. All eyes are upon them now, so they won't be doing it again.

Dredging crap like this up when it's done and dusted serves only to perpetuate any divide between us.

Have you ever lived in the Southern US states?

scrubbedexpat098 Aug 9th 2019 3:42 am

Re: I don't really know where to put this
 

Originally Posted by Sugarmooma (Post 12720653)
It will happen again. Not exactly the same way but believe me it will happen. And it doesn't need to be to be pushed aside. That's part of the problem.

Well then good luck putting the spectre of racism behind you. The intent behind any occurrence is everything. How these guys are dealt with might be the difference between a genuine change, and a perceived change masking a grudge. 1 volunteer is worth 2 pressed men.


Originally Posted by Jerseygirl (Post 12720673)
Have you ever lived in the Southern US states?

Why, is ingrained racism unique there ? Racism is racism the world over, there is no difference based on location. If this was deliberately done then go for your life, but it doesn't seem to be so get over it and move on.

kimilseung Aug 9th 2019 4:41 am

Re: I don't really know where to put this
 
I read that the department made changes so this doesn't happen again. But I also read that the mounted police were expected to not transport people, but to call in a vehicle. Which was not available.

kimilseung Aug 9th 2019 4:54 am

Re: I don't really know where to put this
 

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 12720697)
Why, is ingrained racism unique there ? Racism is racism the world over, there is no difference based on location.

Cultures are unique despite sharing common traits with some other cultures.The history of the South is unique, as is it's particular brand of racism.

scrubbedexpat098 Aug 9th 2019 5:06 am

Re: I don't really know where to put this
 

Originally Posted by kimilseung (Post 12720704)
Cultures are unique despite sharing common traits with some other cultures.The history of the South is unique, as is it's particular brand of racism.

I think they're the same reasons the world over, one section of the community claiming superiority over another based on skin colour. Different histories granted, but we're all living in the now. We should learn from the past not use it as a stick to beat each other with.

caretaker Aug 9th 2019 5:32 am

Re: I don't really know where to put this
 

Originally Posted by kimilseung (Post 12720701)
I read that the department made changes so this doesn't happen again. But I also read that the mounted police were expected to not transport people, but to call in a vehicle. Which was not available.

If there was no car available (that wasn't in the articles I read) then one officer could have dismounted and escorted the prisoner on foot, with his partner leading his horse behind. The scenario in which a mounted officer leads a tethered prisoner is (as previously mentioned) part of their crowd control training. If the sub-station they were going to is close enough for the prisoner to walk to, it's close enough for one of the police to walk to. Did anything positive come out of this? Inadvertantly, I think so. Besides Galveston police getting a bit of an embarrassing tune-up, the publicity showed Neely's family (who had lost contact with him for years) where he was. My guess it was them who came and bailed him out the next day.

kimilseung Aug 9th 2019 6:51 am

Re: I don't really know where to put this
 

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 12720706)
We should learn from the past not use it as a stick to beat each other with.

Who gets beat up over it (well many, I am not talking literally, I am sticking with your figurative meaning), who feels they are getting "beat up over it"?

Lion in Winter Aug 9th 2019 7:32 am

Re: I don't really know where to put this
 

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 12720706)
I think they're the same reasons the world over, one section of the community claiming superiority over another based on skin colour. Different histories granted, but we're all living in the now. We should learn from the past not use it as a stick to beat each other with.

A very large part of the problem in the US is that this is not in the past. It very much forms part of peoples' everyday lives. Yes, there is work going on to change it but yes that work is nowhere near done. Racism here has been institutionalized, it is not a matter of individual "slip ups" from which you can just move on. Undoing it is a long, painful, incremental, and necessarily intentional process. There are implicit biases as well, and you only have to look at the disproportionate rates of detention, and of the use of (sometimes lethal) force in a detention of a black vs a white person, to see but one example of how this plays out. You can also look at the disparate sentencing severity and the percentages of those in prison. None of these police or other legal figures will say "I did this because the person is black" (those two officers with the man on the rope probably wouldn't, for example), but nevertheless the numbers don't lie. And this is just one of the areas where institutional racism plays out. "Putting it behind us and moving on" is not a luxury we have.

scrubbedexpat098 Aug 9th 2019 8:29 am

Re: I don't really know where to put this
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12720743)
A very large part of the problem in the US is that this is not in the past. It very much forms part of peoples' everyday lives. Yes, there is work going on to change it but yes that work is nowhere near done. Racism here has been institutionalized, it is not a matter of individual "slip ups" from which you can just move on. Undoing it is a long, painful, incremental, and necessarily intentional process. There are implicit biases as well, and you only have to look at the disproportionate rates of detention, and of the use of (sometimes lethal) force in a detention of a black vs a white person, to see but one example of how this plays out. You can also look at the disparate sentencing severity and the percentages of those in prison. None of these police or other legal figures will say "I did this because the person is black" (those two officers with the man on the rope probably wouldn't, for example), but nevertheless the numbers don't lie. And this is just one of the areas where institutional racism plays out. "Putting it behind us and moving on" is not a luxury we have.

We have institutionalized racism here in Aus too, successive governments have bent over backwards to be inclusive, and they've had to go full bore at it because they had previously been taking aboriginal kids away from their birth mothers to be drought up by white families up to the 1960's. This is still in the actual memories of some people, so it's only fair that the government takes responsibility and takes measures to right past wrongs. .
Racism may well be alive and well in Texas, but slavery isn't, hasn't been for 150 years, so to bring it up in this case I feel is irresponsible. If there are problems in Texas then they are modern ones, even if the attitudes have been passed down through generations.

You lot had a black president for 8 years, that's a damned sight better than Aus or the UK has managed, did that time go to waste regarding this issue?

As for the numbers, if one group of people end up disproportionately populating prisons, then you have to face the possibility that they're committing a disproportionate percentage of crime. Is educating young black people part of your plan?

I'm not being hostile by the way, genuine questions, the best example I know of is New Zealand, they've got their shit together, and pretty much all steak with one voice, perhaps we could all learn from them.

.


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