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guns own/firearms

Old May 7th 2012, 2:06 am
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Default Re: guns own/firearms

Originally Posted by SATX John View Post
Exactly. Those darn statistics getting in the way of an emotional arguement.
Woudl have been better if they were real numbers though, huh?
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Old May 7th 2012, 2:08 am
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Default Re: guns own/firearms

Originally Posted by Yorkieabroad View Post
Phew - we're only killing a 1/3 of a war zone worth of real people then - the rest are worthless pieces of crap that don't count, so shouldn't be counted.

What a relief!

(I couldn't find anything on the CDC website that broke it down between nice kids and rascals, so have to take your word for it .... probably correct, but to imply that it came from the CDC is , hmmmmmmmm)

Well, that is its a relief unless you look at the real figures from gun deaths as reported by the CDC Take 2009 - deaths by firearms (not just homicide) ages 0-15 was 546 - so if your homicide figure is accurate, that implies over 300 kids 15 and under were killed by firearms for reasons other than homicide.

And if you include all teens, its back up to 2,811, of which 1855 were homicide, so around a 1000 non-homicide - a war-zone and a bit.
The population of the US is over 300,000,000.

Numbers are relative.

The one fact that is relevant to the comparison in a war zone is the significantly reduced number of fatalities at the expense of serious injuries/disabilities.
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Old May 7th 2012, 2:11 am
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Default Re: guns own/firearms

Originally Posted by Yorkieabroad View Post
Woudl have been better if they were real numbers though, huh?
•In 2009, 10,839 people were killed in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for nearly one-third (32%) of all traffic-related deaths in the United States.1
•Of the 1,314 traffic deaths among children ages 0 to 14 years in 2009, 181 (14%) involved an alcohol-impaired driver.1
•Of the 181 child passengers ages 14 and younger who died in alcohol-impaired driving crashes in 2009, about half (92) were riding in the vehicle with the with the alcohol-impaired driver.1
•In 2009, over 1.4 million drivers were arrested for driving under the influence of alcohol or narcotics.3 That's less than one percent of the 147 million self-reported episodes of alcohol-impaired driving among U.S. adults each year.4
•Drugs other than alcohol (e.g., marijuana and cocaine) are involved in about 18% of motor vehicle driver deaths. These other drugs are often used in combination with alcohol

http://www.cdc.gov/MotorVehicleSafet...factsheet.html

Far more than a war zone, solution ban alcohol........
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Old May 7th 2012, 2:12 am
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Default Re: guns own/firearms

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
The population of the US is over 300,000,000.

Numbers are relative.

The one fact that is relevant to the comparison in a war zone is the significantly reduced number of fatalities at the expense of serious injuries/disabilities.
So a thousand kids killed by guns in a yearexcluding homicide is irrelevant because its a big country and people want to have their guns.

I just cannot relate to that sort of warped morality.
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Old May 7th 2012, 2:15 am
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Default Re: guns own/firearms

Originally Posted by SATX John View Post
•In 2009, 10,839 people were killed in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for nearly one-third (32%) of all traffic-related deaths in the United States.1
•Of the 1,314 traffic deaths among children ages 0 to 14 years in 2009, 181 (14%) involved an alcohol-impaired driver.1
•Of the 181 child passengers ages 14 and younger who died in alcohol-impaired driving crashes in 2009, about half (92) were riding in the vehicle with the with the alcohol-impaired driver.1
•In 2009, over 1.4 million drivers were arrested for driving under the influence of alcohol or narcotics.3 That's less than one percent of the 147 million self-reported episodes of alcohol-impaired driving among U.S. adults each year.4
•Drugs other than alcohol (e.g., marijuana and cocaine) are involved in about 18% of motor vehicle driver deaths. These other drugs are often used in combination with alcohol

http://www.cdc.gov/MotorVehicleSafet...factsheet.html

Far more than a war zone, solution ban alcohol........
Exactly - every one of those deaths/incidents arises from someone doing something that actually is illegal! Thanks - hadn't expected support form your corner
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Old May 7th 2012, 2:20 am
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Default Re: guns own/firearms

Originally Posted by Yorkieabroad View Post
Exactly - every one of those deaths/incidents arises from someone doing something that actually is illegal! Thanks - hadn't expected support form your corner
Not necessarily, states/citiies have laws on where guns should be and where ammo is stored, gun locks etc.... Those stats I do not know, but if parents do not educate their kids on the guns and follow the rules, I do agree with you they go to jail, but not ban guns.
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Old May 7th 2012, 2:31 am
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Default Re: guns own/firearms

Originally Posted by SATX John View Post
= but not ban guns.
Because that, of course, is sacrosanct.

Most people that I know that have guns say they sleep with a loaded one next to the bed, carry a loaded one whenever they go out etc etc so I'm not sure what the rules on storing ammo are round here, or why they would even be applicable if the above practices are legal? One of the dads on my sons' team takes his Glock to the U9 soccer games on a Saturday morning in case things "get out of hand". WTF??

But if you read, I've never actually said that I would like to see guns banned. I realise that is such a losing wicket its not even worth putting on the pads. But unless/until some sort of realistic/enforced gun control is out there, we're going to continue seeing those deaths, no matter how much people advocate "education". Thats fine though, as asserted earlier, those deaths are irrelevant in the scheme of things....

I just find it kind of ironic that from an educational point of view we strive to "leave no Child Behind" but from a gun ownership point of view, 1000 a year (or whatever stat you want to use) is an acceptable price to pay for every Tom Dick or Harry to tool up like he's Sly Stallone and Arnie rolled into one....
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Old May 7th 2012, 2:36 am
  #353  
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Default Re: guns own/firearms

Originally Posted by Yorkieabroad View Post
Because that, of course, is sacrosanct.

Most people that I know that have guns say they sleep with a loaded one next to the bed, carry a loaded one whenever they go out etc etc so I'm not sure what the rules on storing ammo are round here, or why they would even be applicable if the above practices are legal? One of the dads on my sons' team takes his Glock to the U9 soccer games on a Saturday morning in case things "get out of hand". WTF??

But if you read, I've never actually said that I would like to see guns banned. I realise that is such a losing wicket its not even worth putting on the pads. But unless/until some sort of realistic/enforced gun control is out there, we're going to continue seeing those deaths, no matter how much people advocate "education". Thats fine though, as asserted earlier, those deaths are irrelevant in the scheme of things....

I just find it kind of ironic that from an educational point of view we strive to "leave no Child Behind" but from a gun ownership point of view, 1000 a year (or whatever stat you want to use) is an acceptable price to pay for every Tom Dick or Harry to tool up like he's Sly Stallone and Arnie rolled into one....
Just like alcohol and tobacco....
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Old May 7th 2012, 2:45 am
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Default Re: guns own/firearms

Originally Posted by SATX John View Post
Just like alcohol and tobacco....
Not really - a kid makes a mistake with a sixpack the most they're likely to get is a hangover....tobacco takes a good few years to kill. Guns are a lot more effective at instant gratification.........
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Old May 7th 2012, 2:51 am
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Default Re: guns own/firearms

Originally Posted by Yorkieabroad View Post
Phew - we're only killing a 1/3 of a war zone worth of real people then - the rest are worthless pieces of crap that don't count, so shouldn't be counted.

What are you talking about? I said nothing of the kind in my original post.


What a relief!

What?

(I couldn't find anything on the CDC website that broke it down between nice kids and rascals, so have to take your word for it .... probably correct, but to imply that it came from the CDC is , hmmmmmmmm)

FWIW, according to the FBI Uniform Crime Reports, there were 665 "Juvenile Gang Killings" due to firearms in 2009. Link:
http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/off...rtable_11.html

Well, that is its a relief unless you look at the real figures from gun deaths as reported by the CDC Take 2009 - deaths by firearms (not just homicide) ages 0-15 was 546 - so if your homicide figure is accurate, that implies over 300 kids 15 and under were killed by firearms for reasons other than homicide.

And if you include all teens, its back up to 2,811, of which 1855 were homicide, so around a 1000 non-homicide - a war-zone and a bit.

What is your source for the above? I don't see it in the 2009 CDC data.
This post is extremely confusing... some responses inline above.
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Old May 7th 2012, 2:55 am
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Default Re: guns own/firearms

Originally Posted by civilservant View Post
As a certified aviation buff who reads every crash/incident report because he loves aircraft - I wholeheartdly agree with this statement!
I generally don't prefer flying over water.

Having experienced 'The Dunker' during my time in the RAF, no thanks!!
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Old May 7th 2012, 2:56 am
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Default Re: guns own/firearms

Originally Posted by Yorkieabroad View Post
So a thousand kids killed by guns in a yearexcluding homicide is irrelevant because its a big country and people want to have their guns.

I just cannot relate to that sort of warped morality.
Where is the 1000 kids/year number coming from? From the Detailed Tables for the National Vital Statistics Report (NVSR) “Deaths: Final Data for 2009”, I see, for ages 0-14: (Found in Table 10, document available here: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm

Accidental discharge of firearms - 48
Suicide by firearms - 64
Undetermined - 8
Homicide - 234

48 + 64 + 8 is nowhere near 1000...

If I'm missing something in the data please show me where, because I'd like to know if I'm incorrect.

Last edited by Bill_S; May 7th 2012 at 2:59 am.
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Old May 7th 2012, 3:01 am
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Default Re: guns own/firearms

Originally Posted by Bill_S View Post
Where is the 1000 kids/year number coming from? From the Detailed Tables for the National Vital Statistics Report (NVSR) “Deaths: Final Data for 2009”, I see, for ages 0-14: (Found in Table 10)

Accidental discharge of firearms - 48
Suicide by firearms - 64
Undetermined - 8
Homicide - 234

48 + 64 + 8 is nowhere near 1000...

If I'm missing something in the data please show me where, because I'd like to know if I'm incorrect.
All those figures are pulled directly from the CDC website in the National Center for Injury and prevention control - I thought that was the one you were quoting. http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_us.html.
You can search away to your hearts content on age, cause of death, manner of death (ie whether homicide, accidental, whatever)
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Old May 7th 2012, 3:04 am
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Default Re: guns own/firearms

Ban guns and a whole bunch of people probably won't die or get maimed in non-crime related incidents.

The argument against is that criminals don't play by those rules and will still have guns.

I have news people. THEY HAVE THEM NOW!!!

So the argument then shifts to having them for self protection... The kind that results in a lot of accidental deaths.

And situations where you aren't in a position to respond with your weapon... e.g middle of the night, with you half asleep, and the gun not close at hand, nor loaded...unless you sleep with it under the pillow, loaded

Not a society I fancy living in...

Luckily the number of gun owners seems to be dropping, but those with the guns have many. That's some protection!!!

As for protection against the Feds - grow up, we all know they put stuff in the water & beam signals in to our brains. They won't do a full frontal assault... They'll just bore us all to death without us even knowing ... Reality TV, Fox News - the truth is out there...
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Old May 7th 2012, 3:21 am
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Default Re: guns own/firearms

Originally Posted by HarryTheSpider View Post
Not a society I fancy living in...
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the heart of the matter.
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