Go Back  British Expats > General > Take it Outside!
Reload this Page >

The great big Electile Dysfunction thread....

The great big Electile Dysfunction thread....

Old Dec 5th 2019, 7:04 pm
  #106  
BE Site Lead & Admin
 
BEVS's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Below
Posts: 34,261
BEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The great big Electile Dysfunction thread....

Originally Posted by Watchpost View Post
You're right, 80k isn't a "silly" salary. It will make you comfortably off, but you won't be flying a Lear Jet or sailing your own yacht (not one of respectable proportions). You won't have full-time domestic staff. Your lifestyle will be largely a typical middle-class existence. You might drive a Jaguar rather than a Ford, but ultimately they're both just "a car".

You only have to consider that one person with an average salary is earning 40k, so for a couple, the difference between 40k and 80k is the difference between the wife earning the same versus staying at home to look after the children. (Apologies if that sounds sexist, but that's the reality.)

And yet, it isn't sufficiently appreciated among the better-off that the vast majority of people in the UK are way short of this figure. They are either on the breadline - that's what the minimum wage means - or living a fairly modest middle-class existence without oodles of cash to spare. An existence in which redundancy or even just the need for a head gasket job on the car is financially painful.

The reason is simple: people move in much the same circles. If you earn 80k, you will have some contact with poorer people, but those earning much the same as you will seem to be far more prevalent than they actually are. This blinds people to reality. There was an article in the DT a couple of years ago which, had it been in the Guardian, would have been considered satire: a family from the "struggling middle". They were, so it was described, just about getting by. But they were sending both sons to expensive "public" (i.e. private) schools. The fees for those schools are more than some people earn. Only 7% of children in the UK attend fee-paying schools; not doing so is "normal". Yet this family regarded themselves as "struggling". This is what comes of moving only in your own circles - in this case, circles in which private education is taken as a given.

Thatcher and Blair both made the same mistake: they viewed poverty from a middle-class perspective, and they did so because they too were too influenced by their own circles. Both thought the solution was to help the poor up into the middle class. Thatcher thought they should all own their own homes, Blair thought they should all go to university. If you live in London, owning your own home and having a degree are indeed very helpful. But in vast parts of the UK, it helps you very little if you own your own home or have a BA in a non-vocational subject. There simply aren't enough jobs, at least not for a comfortable middle-class existence.
A clear and first class post. Karma your way.
BEVS is offline  
Old Dec 6th 2019, 11:48 am
  #107  
 
Lion in Winter's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 50,358
Lion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The great big Electile Dysfunction thread....

So, I wonder who will get chosen for the audience this evening.

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50681321

And are the editors ready.....
Lion in Winter is offline  
Old Dec 6th 2019, 7:45 pm
  #108  
 
Lion in Winter's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 50,358
Lion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The great big Electile Dysfunction thread....

As I look at the debate stage setup, how is it that while Labour gets the red rose in their backdrop, as you might reasonably expect, the Tories get the national flag? Has that always been their symbol? I don't remember that.

Lion in Winter is offline  
Old Dec 6th 2019, 8:19 pm
  #109  
BE Forum Addict
 
macliam's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Suffolk,UK; Alentejo, Portugal
Posts: 3,936
macliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The great big Electile Dysfunction thread....

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
As I look at the debate stage setup, how is it that while Labour gets the red rose in their backdrop, as you might reasonably expect, the Tories get the national flag? Has that always been their symbol? I don't remember that.

The Tories reinvent their symbol about as often as they reinvent themselves......
macliam is offline  
Old Dec 6th 2019, 9:28 pm
  #110  
 
Lion in Winter's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 50,358
Lion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The great big Electile Dysfunction thread....

I think Corbyn's done quite well in the debate. Boris hasn't totally put his foot in anything, except when he went off script and decided to use his sense of humour on the "punishment for people telling lies as part of their campaign" question.

Is it a breakthrough debate? Not for Boris. Is it for Corbyn?
Lion in Winter is offline  
Old Dec 6th 2019, 11:06 pm
  #111  
Oscar nominated
 
BristolUK's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 28,984
BristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The great big Electile Dysfunction thread....

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
As I look at the debate stage setup, how is it that while Labour gets the red rose in their backdrop, as you might reasonably expect, the Tories get the national flag? Has that always been their symbol? I don't remember that.
Some might say it's the symbol of the NF (rather tha National Flag).
BristolUK is offline  
Old Dec 7th 2019, 2:47 pm
  #112  
SUPER MODERATOR
 
Jerseygirl's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 80,381
Jerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The great big Electile Dysfunction thread....

Off topic posts moved into a new thread...

https://britishexpats.com/forum/take...thread-929698/
Jerseygirl is offline  
Old Dec 7th 2019, 2:56 pm
  #113  
 
Lion in Winter's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 50,358
Lion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The great big Electile Dysfunction thread....

From David Merritt:

"Posting on Twitter in response to a mention of the attack in last night’s BBC leaders’ debate, he said: ‘If prisoners have engaged with rehabilitation & turned their lives around, why should they be punished for what Khan did?’

In his first direct attack on Mr Johnson, he added: ‘Corbyn spoke the truth last night. Johnson lied & used our son’s death to make political capital.

‘Wake up Britain: this man is a fraud. He’s the worst of us, & he’s taking you for a ride. You may think the options open to you in this election are not entirely to your liking. Me neither, but I’ll be voting least worst option: anti-Tory.’"


https://distincttoday.net/2019/12/07...boris-johnson/

Hard to disagree with that last paragraph.
Lion in Winter is offline  
Old Dec 10th 2019, 12:00 pm
  #114  
 
Lion in Winter's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 50,358
Lion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The great big Electile Dysfunction thread....

And this is what we will get.

"The rewards for political lying are massive: they include winning referendums and elections. The penalties are either nonexistent or tiny...If elections are won by lies, we find ourselves governed by liars."

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ss-lies-labour

It's going to take some years to clean up the damage - all from one stupid referendum on a non-problem. The opportunistic have slithered into power through a cesspit of lies and exercises in the power.
Lion in Winter is offline  
Old Dec 11th 2019, 2:21 am
  #115  
idealist
 
stevenglish1's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,598
stevenglish1 has a reputation beyond reputestevenglish1 has a reputation beyond reputestevenglish1 has a reputation beyond reputestevenglish1 has a reputation beyond reputestevenglish1 has a reputation beyond reputestevenglish1 has a reputation beyond reputestevenglish1 has a reputation beyond reputestevenglish1 has a reputation beyond reputestevenglish1 has a reputation beyond reputestevenglish1 has a reputation beyond reputestevenglish1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The great big Electile Dysfunction thread....

This belongs in the what has pissed you off today thread, but I'm not putting it in there because it's not a political thread.

Tell you what's pissed me off though, seeing my Facebook newsfeed cluttered with pro-boris, anti-jezza nonsense. In itself, that doesn't bother me, but the sources do. These are mostly people I grew up with on a council estate, people who work with their hands and have worked hard. They've achieved what they want in life, and now they're shutting up shop and saying **** you I'm alright jack. Traitors to their class? I'm edging towards that, but I never thought I'd see an absolute lack of empathy on this scale from people like me. That's what has pissed me off today. I despair of the motherland if the tories get in, it genuinely scares me.
stevenglish1 is offline  
Old Dec 11th 2019, 9:12 am
  #116  
BE Forum Addict
 
macliam's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Suffolk,UK; Alentejo, Portugal
Posts: 3,936
macliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The great big Electile Dysfunction thread....

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
This belongs in the what has pissed you off today thread, but I'm not putting it in there because it's not a political thread.

Tell you what's pissed me off though, seeing my Facebook newsfeed cluttered with pro-boris, anti-jezza nonsense. In itself, that doesn't bother me, but the sources do. These are mostly people I grew up with on a council estate, people who work with their hands and have worked hard. They've achieved what they want in life, and now they're shutting up shop and saying **** you I'm alright jack. Traitors to their class? I'm edging towards that, but I never thought I'd see an absolute lack of empathy on this scale from people like me. That's what has pissed me off today. I despair of the motherland if the tories get in, it genuinely scares me.
Yep. That's my issue..... not the day-to-day politics, not even Brexit - but the apparent lack of concern amongst people for things which do not directly concern them and their willingness to accept the lies of anyone who promises immediate relief, even when they've heard all the lies before. People seem not to be interested in the direction of travel, but immediate gratification and "celebrity". Maybe it's the result of conditioning by the media......
macliam is offline  
Old Dec 11th 2019, 9:42 am
  #117  
Reasonable Bitch
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Mallorca
Posts: 16,071
amideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The great big Electile Dysfunction thread....

This touches on that:

From Little Englanders to Brexiteers

amideislas is offline  
Old Dec 11th 2019, 10:23 am
  #118  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,868
Bipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The great big Electile Dysfunction thread....

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
I would disagree with many of his interpretations of facts. He talks of Enoch Powell but fails to recognise that the views for instance of Ursula von der Leyen favouring a federation and European army, continuing primacy in law are in reality, and in effect, an EU Empire.
The appreciation of the Commonwealth and promotion of free trade with countries outside of the UK is hardly the dream of rebirth of the British Empire!!
Bipat is offline  
Old Dec 11th 2019, 10:32 am
  #119  
Reasonable Bitch
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Mallorca
Posts: 16,071
amideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The great big Electile Dysfunction thread....

Are you dyslexic or something? Or is conflation (and exaggeration) of entirely different things just a hobby? Or perhaps just another strawman? Or just plain old "whatboutism", using a non-example as a basis for comparison?

Last edited by amideislas; Dec 11th 2019 at 10:41 am.
amideislas is offline  
Old Dec 11th 2019, 10:43 am
  #120  
WWLLCJD?
 
Scamp's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Dubai
Posts: 22,775
Scamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The great big Electile Dysfunction thread....

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
This belongs in the what has pissed you off today thread, but I'm not putting it in there because it's not a political thread.

Tell you what's pissed me off though, seeing my Facebook newsfeed cluttered with pro-boris, anti-jezza nonsense. In itself, that doesn't bother me, but the sources do. These are mostly people I grew up with on a council estate, people who work with their hands and have worked hard. They've achieved what they want in life, and now they're shutting up shop and saying **** you I'm alright jack. Traitors to their class? I'm edging towards that, but I never thought I'd see an absolute lack of empathy on this scale from people like me. That's what has pissed me off today. I despair of the motherland if the tories get in, it genuinely scares me.
Originally Posted by macliam View Post
Yep. That's my issue..... not the day-to-day politics, not even Brexit - but the apparent lack of concern amongst people for things which do not directly concern them and their willingness to accept the lies of anyone who promises immediate relief, even when they've heard all the lies before. People seem not to be interested in the direction of travel, but immediate gratification and "celebrity". Maybe it's the result of conditioning by the media......
People put themselves first? Who'd have thought it.
Scamp is offline  

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.