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George Floyd

George Floyd

Old Aug 24th 2020, 2:41 pm
  #961  
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
It’s got to be incompetence. It’s hard to believe that so many police officers criminally, or maliciously, simply enjoy killing people. Or place so little value on human life.

But, as with gun violence and lack of effective health care in America, nothing can be done about it. Because, god forbid that America could look at international comparisons to try to improve the dismal performance of government in America.
I hate to say it, but I can't help thinking of my old landlord when I was at Uni. He had been conscripted after the war and became a driver in the Army. He was posted to Egypt and remembered being told by his sergeant-major that, if he hit anyone whilst driving, he should reverse back over them to make sure they were dead..........

Some actions are not merely down to incompetence, but in support of an agenda, overt or covert.
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Old Aug 24th 2020, 3:10 pm
  #962  
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
I don't understand why people settle for these standards. Why have these things been accepted as inevitable, or, worse yet, as virtues?

As for the police, I have very few insights. I did know someone who trained as a police officer in Chicago (she subsequently left the force) and her comment was that there was a huge emphasis on domination and escalation of loudness and overbearing behaviour on the theory that this would cow and frighten people into obedience, and control the situation that way. If that's the case, it doesn't seem to work.
I agree, and over the years, I’ve said this a few times on BE, and been indignantly shouted down by posters who’ve said it shows insufficient respect for conscientious police officers. But, the coercive power of the state is a big thing in America. You see it every day, and, as an immigrant from the UK, it never ceases to shock.

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Old Aug 24th 2020, 3:14 pm
  #963  
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Default Re: George Floyd

And another one -

Police in Arizona have released bodycam and CCTV footage showing the arrest of a man who died after he was held by officers on hot tarmac for six minutes in 100-degree heat.

Ramon Timothy Lopez, 28, became unresponsive in the back of a police car following his arrest for allegedly stealing a drink from a shop in the city of Phoenix
ETA: Happened on August 4th.
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Old Aug 24th 2020, 3:20 pm
  #964  
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
I agree, and over the years, I’ve said this a few times on BE, and been indignantly shouted down by posters who’ve said it shows insufficient respect for conscientious police officers. But, the coercive power of the state is a big thing in America. You see it every day, and, as an immigrant from the UK, it never ceases to shock.
Every day?

Last time I saw, talked to a Police Officer was a couple of months ago when he came to do a trailer inspection. Now that is a story, getting an out of state trailer licensed.
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Old Aug 24th 2020, 3:28 pm
  #965  
 
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
I agree, and over the years, I’ve said this a few times on BE, and been indignantly shouted down by posters who’ve said it shows insufficient respect for conscientious police officers. But, the coercive power of the state is a big thing in America. You see it every day, and, as an immigrant from the UK, it never ceases to shock.

It's an odd combination with a culture that ostensibly fears government as intrusion on individual freedom more than any other I've encountered. It's hugely inconsistent, yet is defended adamantly by the most conservative voices that are normally the first to decry as "government interference" things that to Europeans are simply the normal functions of government.
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Old Aug 24th 2020, 3:37 pm
  #966  
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
It's an odd combination with a culture that ostensibly fears government as intrusion on individual freedom more than any other I've encountered. It's hugely inconsistent, yet is defended adamantly by the most conservative voices that are normally the first to decry as "government interference" things that to Europeans are simply the normal functions of government.
Yeah that is what’s jarring about the whole package. “Don’t tread on me” combined with mean, bureaucratic signs everywhere telling you what you can’t do.
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Old Aug 24th 2020, 3:43 pm
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
Yeah that is what’s jarring about the whole package. “Don’t tread on me” combined with mean, bureaucratic signs everywhere telling you what you can’t do.

I was once shouted at by a Post Office clerk because I asked her to track a priority mail package that hadn't arrived. She told me not to question the US government. Loudly. OK, it was funny, but also not.

She refused to continue serving me. I hadn't been rude in any way.
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Old Aug 24th 2020, 5:00 pm
  #968  
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Probably not, eh? Could a whole group of armed police not control the situation better than that?
I saw the incident video earlier. I expect the explanation will be they saw or thought they saw him going for a gun, but they already had guns out so why wasn't he stopped from walking away? Two cops followed him around the front, why not the other two around the back? There was clearly going to be a problem once he's leaning into the car, unless they were just going to let him drive away.

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse View Post
Probably not indeed. And his three kids were in the car and saw the whole thing
That would explain why one or two cops were initially unseen - bending over perhaps.

Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
It’s got to be incompetence...
7 close range shots and they didn't manage to kill him.

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
I hate to say it, but I can't help thinking of my old landlord when I was at Uni. He had been conscripted after the war and became a driver in the Army. He was posted to Egypt and remembered being told by his sergeant-major that, if he hit anyone whilst driving, he should reverse back over them to make sure they were dead..........
I actually heard this while in Egypt. The story goes that the driver injuring someone becomes responsible for that person's welfare, including medical bills and ongoing expenses, so the idea is to make sure they are dead.
It's probably on snopes.
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Old Aug 24th 2020, 5:03 pm
  #969  
 
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
I saw the incident video earlier. I expect the explanation will be they saw or thought they saw him going for a gun, but they already had guns out so why wasn't he stopped from walking away? Two cops followed him around the front, why not the other two around the back? There was clearly going to be a problem once he's leaning into the car, unless they were just going to let him drive away.

.
Exactly. They seem to have followed him, pointing guns, for at least several yards. How did it come to that.

I believe that in the UK he would indeed have been allowed to drive away. Police are not judge, jury and executioner. They would have looked for him later.


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Old Aug 24th 2020, 5:14 pm
  #970  
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Police are not judge, jury and executioner.
Yes. It's one of the things that puzzles me most when apologists seek to excuse these type of incidents by pointing out that the person was presumed to have been committing some type of crime, such as George Floyd and a fake banknote. As if that somehow makes it ok to shoot and/or kill them.
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Old Aug 24th 2020, 5:39 pm
  #971  
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Despite the obvious death wish demonstrated by walking away from armed police while black in the US, should Jacob Blake, apparently unarmed, have been shot seven times in the back?


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53886070

Probably not, eh? Could a whole group of armed police not control the situation better than that?

They should be able to, but seems US Police departments are not properly training their officers on anything but to pull a gun, US police tend to excel at one thing really well is escalating situations, de-escalation doesn't seem to be taught in the US.

Or these police simply no longer care, and feel the system protects them, and until there is large numbers of police being charged and convicted, that mentality may not change.

Last year Vancouver Police subdued a stabbing suspect with minimal force compared to the US, but were criticized for using excessive force, imagine if US police could just be more like what the video shows, which I am not sure was overly excessive considering the man just stabbed someone and there was a mass of people around.




Last edited by Jsmth321; Aug 24th 2020 at 5:47 pm.
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Old Aug 24th 2020, 7:01 pm
  #972  
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
.............7 close range shots and they didn't manage to kill him.


I actually heard this while in Egypt. The story goes that the driver injuring someone becomes responsible for that person's welfare, including medical bills and ongoing expenses, so the idea is to make sure they are dead.
It's probably on snopes.
This reminds me of the killing of Jean Charles de Menezes in London. He was pinned to his seat by a surveillance officer, but then shot by another, armed officer. A total of 11 shots were fired at close range over 30 seconds (i.e. not on automatic) at a static target, seven shots to the head and one to the shoulder. Which means that 3 shots missed

As to Egypt, given the source of my information, I really don't care about snopes, The reason given was that it was cheaper to pay the family death money, than to pay for treatment - that was the agenda......
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Old Aug 24th 2020, 8:27 pm
  #973  
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Default Re: George Floyd

Since late June, the Office of Residential Life and Housing Services at New York University (NYU) has been working closely with a small, student-led task force to make racially segregated housing a reality in undergraduate student dorms.

On July 20, Washington Square News, the weekly undergraduate student newspaper of NYU, published an article titled “Student-Led Task Force Calls for Black Housing on Campus,” in which they reported on the university’s willingness to help implement residential communities open solely to “Black-identifying students with Black Resident Assistants.” Since then, the university has officially given the project a green light, aiming to have NYU’s first segregated residential floor established by Fall 2021.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/202.../nyur-a24.html

MLK's dream is coming true.
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Old Aug 24th 2020, 8:33 pm
  #974  
 
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post

As much as this is a terrible idea, and as amused as I am to have you quoting from the "World Socialist Website" (you're going to confuse Paulry terribly) which also states what a terrible idea this is, what does it have to do with police killing people during arrest? Care to explain? Or do you just prefer to troll?
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Old Aug 24th 2020, 9:10 pm
  #975  
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Default Re: George Floyd

I prefer to use approved sources and the Guardian have yet to eulogise over this.

As the article says the need to provide safe spaces, so fits right in with George.

Admittedly could also add it to half a dozen other threads, wonder of this is official Dem Policy for 2020?
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