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George Floyd

George Floyd

Old Oct 2nd 2020, 9:48 pm
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Default Re: George Floyd

Police in Beverley Hills stopped a black man carrying a Versace bag.

Black man turns out to be Salehe Bembury, VP of Sneakers and Men's Footwear for Versace.

The cops claimed he jay walked, but I don't buy the cops reasoning.



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Old Oct 2nd 2020, 9:58 pm
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Seriously? I'll repeat it.


Again you are describing after the event.

That may very well be the case when the shooting is justified in the first place because of the threat. LiW has covered that with you.
You're either trolling or have the reading level of a 4th grader.

Again, what part says they can't use reasonable force?



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Old Oct 2nd 2020, 10:27 pm
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by anotherlimey View Post
You're either trolling or have the reading level of a 4th grader.

Again, what part says they can't use reasonable force?
Personally, as someone who has worked as door staff in UK pubs, clubs and festivals, and what looks like and probably is reasonable force to one person isn't often seen as such by the person being dealt with, their friends, or by people watching.

I also understand that sometimes, the soft option isn't going to work and that s firmer response is needed. And if someone with a weapon is a threat to us, Police or others, they're going down very hard.

But at what point does a fairly compliant or handcuffed, unarmed suspect need to die? That's not reasonable force, that's either murder / manslaughter or negligent homicide.

I understand as well that US Police face every situation not knowing if the suspect or even the complainant has a weapon, and that sometimes mistakes happen, as does the need to use multiple rounds to take a suspect down. But surely US Police are also trained to take unarmed suspects to the ground.
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Old Oct 2nd 2020, 11:09 pm
  #1504  
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by anotherlimey View Post
Again, what part says they can't use reasonable force?
Is that three or four times I posted the relevant part from the official site? I've lost count.
You keep banging on about juries seemingly without realising that court cases come after the incidents which in turn come after the training has taken place. But never mind.
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Old Oct 3rd 2020, 12:06 am
  #1505  
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Personally, as someone who has worked as door staff in UK pubs, clubs and festivals, and what looks like and probably is reasonable force to one person isn't often seen as such by the person being dealt with, their friends, or by people watching.

I also understand that sometimes, the soft option isn't going to work and that s firmer response is needed. And if someone with a weapon is a threat to us, Police or others, they're going down very hard.

But at what point does a fairly compliant or handcuffed, unarmed suspect need to die? That's not reasonable force, that's either murder / manslaughter or negligent homicide.

I understand as well that US Police face every situation not knowing if the suspect or even the complainant has a weapon, and that sometimes mistakes happen, as does the need to use multiple rounds to take a suspect down. But surely US Police are also trained to take unarmed suspects to the ground.
Again, where did I stay it was ok to shoot someone who is fairly compliant? I agreed with LiW.

As I said you are reading things wrong.

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Is that three or four times I posted the relevant part from the official site? I've lost count.
You keep banging on about juries seemingly without realising that court cases come after the incidents which in turn come after the training has taken place. But never mind.
If a jury finds a cops shooting someone 20 times is reasonable, in some situations, future juries tend to go the same way. That is what you fail to grasp.

You've not quoted any law saying reasonable force is illegal. You're quoting something that literally says reasonable force is legal.

The quality of trolling here has really gone downhill.


Last edited by anotherlimey; Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:10 am.
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Old Oct 3rd 2020, 2:09 am
  #1506  
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by anotherlimey View Post
If a jury finds a cops shooting someone 20 times is reasonable, in some situations, future juries tend to go the same way. That is what you fail to grasp.
I don't fail to grasp that. You and I are disagreeing about what you said about the training. A jury verdict is two times removed - after - from the training. It's irrelevant to the training.
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Old Oct 3rd 2020, 3:39 am
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
I don't fail to grasp that. You and I are disagreeing about what you said about the training. A jury verdict is two times removed - after - from the training. It's irrelevant to the training.
The training is use resonable force. Which is what the quote you keep posting says; you don't even know what you are quoting.

You think far too narrowly. You think cases are tried in isolation and no one takes notice of the results.

What do you think happens to police training when a cop is found guilty of something? Do you think a) they leave everything as is and let cops continue to go to jail, or b) they change their TRAINING.

You should read more and post less.
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Old Oct 3rd 2020, 2:48 pm
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by anotherlimey View Post
The training is use resonable force. Which is what the quote you keep posting says; you don't even know what you are quoting.
This is the only part I'm going to answer because you appear to have a problem reading the words posted.
Last time -
Originally Posted by official website of the United States government, Department of Justice
Law enforcement officers should use only the amount of force necessary to mitigate an incident, make an arrest, or protect themselves or others from harm.
If you want to massively reduce and over simplify that to reasonable force that's up to you.
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Old Oct 3rd 2020, 4:47 pm
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by anotherlimey View Post
What do you think happens to police training when a cop is found guilty of something? Do you think a) they leave everything as is and let cops continue to go to jail, or b) they change their TRAINING.
In the vast majority of cases, a cop who shoots someone doesn't get remotely near a jury. I suggest that this perpetual reinforcing of police immunity, more than anything else, influences police psychology and police training.

The reason that is changing is the potent combination of public opinion and video footage - not juries.
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Old Oct 3rd 2020, 6:16 pm
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
This is the only part I'm going to answer because you appear to have a problem reading the words posted.
Last time -
If you want to massively reduce and over simplify that to reasonable force that's up to you.
Reasonable force is the actual legal term. It is what the officer, in this case, believes was reasonable at the time.

You only need spend 5 minutes on google to stop looking like you drew the short straw.



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Old Oct 3rd 2020, 6:19 pm
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by Watchpost View Post
In the vast majority of cases, a cop who shoots someone doesn't get remotely near a jury. I suggest that this perpetual reinforcing of police immunity, more than anything else, influences police psychology and police training.

The reason that is changing is the potent combination of public opinion and video footage - not juries.
Absolutely. But nothing has actually changed.

As we saw this week DAs don't like to touch anything they doubt they can persuade a jury on.


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Old Oct 3rd 2020, 6:25 pm
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by anotherlimey View Post
Absolutely. But nothing has actually changed.

As we saw this week DAs don't like to touch anything they doubt they can persuade a jury on.

And that isn't unique to the US either. We don't have DA's in British Columbia, but we have Crown Prosecutors (not elected) and they often decline to bring charges if they don't have a super secure case.

Guess they only have so many lawyers, so many courtrooms, and judges so they have to pick and choose the ones they feel have the best chance of conviction. It's not about justice to prosecutors, all they care about is convictions, the more convictions the better in their eyes.
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Old Oct 4th 2020, 1:15 am
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
Police in Beverley Hills stopped a black man carrying a Versace bag.

Black man turns out to be Salehe Bembury, VP of Sneakers and Men's Footwear for Versace.

The cops claimed he jay walked, but I don't buy the cops reasoning.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreak...e_footwear_vp/

The police used jay walking as the reason to stop him, bet if he was white they would have paid no attention to it.

The police officer asks the man for his ID, then says without putting your hands in your pockets, wtf kind of command is that from the police, how is someone supposed to get their ID without putting their hands in their pockets where most men carry their ID.




Last edited by Jsmth321; Oct 4th 2020 at 1:19 am.
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Old Oct 4th 2020, 1:39 am
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Default Re: George Floyd

Three cops to deal with a guy who crossed the street against a red pedestrian signal? Yeah, not buying that was the reason at all. "Shopping in Beverly Hills while black" seems much more likely.
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Old Oct 4th 2020, 2:11 am
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Default Re: George Floyd

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreak...e_footwear_vp/

The police used jay walking as the reason to stop him, bet if he was white they would have paid no attention to it.

The police officer asks the man for his ID, then says without putting your hands in your pockets, wtf kind of command is that from the police, how is someone supposed to get their ID without putting their hands in their pockets where most men carry their ID.
Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
Three cops to deal with a guy who crossed the street against a red pedestrian signal? Yeah, not buying that was the reason at all. "Shopping in Beverly Hills while black" seems much more likely.
Why didn't they shoot him dead? I understand it's what they're trained to do.
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