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The future populist-run EU

The future populist-run EU

Old Nov 14th 2018, 3:46 am
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Default The future populist-run EU

The 29th May 2019 is the date of the EU elections, and it's widely thought that those elected will be majority populist like never before. Could this be the end of the EU or a reform of it back to what most voters originally understood it to be: A friendly community of sovereign nations, sharing a common love of freedom and self-determination? Will it signal an end to creeping federalism? Could it be that the renewed drive to form an EU army and all the other full-on apparatus of state represents the dying and desperate last gasps of that decaying federalist dream? Could this be the shot in the arm that the crumbling block needs? And what could it mean to the messily Brexiting UK?
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Old Nov 14th 2018, 5:49 am
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Default Re: The future populist-run EU

You and your misspelt cartoon character have been hoping and predicting such imminent failure for a long time. But if history is any guide, I think you'll have to wait a lot longer.

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Old Nov 14th 2018, 8:08 am
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Default Re: The future populist-run EU

So what happened Paulry et al to your prophecies year on year that the EU was close to collapse.
Mass exits, blah, blah . Blah.
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Old Nov 14th 2018, 8:17 am
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Default Re: The future populist-run EU

Legend has it that the EP doesn't have any power whatsoever and is simply there to rubber-stamp the decisions made by the unelected Commission, so presumably the make-up of that parliament is completely immaterial to those who propagate that line. Unless, of course, they don't believe it at all.

Anyway, what does the phrase "those elected will be majority populist like never before" mean? That "populists" will make up a majority of the parliament or just a few more than at present? Or that there'll be some whose policies are mainly - but not completely - populist. "Majority populist"
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Old Nov 14th 2018, 10:04 am
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Default Re: The future populist-run EU

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
Legend has it that the EP doesn't have any power whatsoever and is simply there to rubber-stamp the decisions made by the unelected Commission, so presumably the make-up of that parliament is completely immaterial to those who propagate that line. Unless, of course, they don't believe it at all.

Anyway, what does the phrase "those elected will be majority populist like never before" mean? That "populists" will make up a majority of the parliament or just a few more than at present? Or that there'll be some whose policies are mainly - but not completely - populist. "Majority populist"
That's a good point. But it'll be interesting to see how that goes if enough MEPs refuse to rubber stamp anything. Then we have the matter of the 30 elected commissioners, appointed six months after the elections, approved by the MEPS and picked by the commission president who is him/herself appointed by the member states. I think even you should be able to appreciate how significant the populist winds of change can be to the EU. In some ways it could be well timed, forcing the EU to adapt so that it does not die. Question is, is there anything fundamentally good about the EU that is worth saving? I'd say yes there is along the lines of a loose cooperation of independent nation states, each with full control of their national borders, economies, currencies and laws.

As for whether a populist takeover will happen or not, it aint over until the fat lady sings ....But it's certainly got much of the EU ruling elite rattled!

https://www.politico.eu/article/comm...ment-election/

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-dead-struggle

https://knowledge.insead.edu/blog/in...populism-10416
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Old Nov 14th 2018, 3:35 pm
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Default Re: The future populist-run EU

Originally Posted by paulry View Post
That's a good point.
Its very magnanimous of you to concede it - it's not often we see posters being so accommodating when confronted with their own inconsistency and self-contradiction.

Originally Posted by paulry View Post
But it'll be interesting to see how that goes if enough MEPs refuse to rubber stamp anything. Then we have the matter of the 30 elected commissioners, appointed six months after the elections, approved by the MEPS and picked by the commission president who is him/herself appointed by the member states. I think even you should be able to appreciate how significant the populist winds of change can be to the EU.
In terms of who gets to be commissioners and the passing of legislation? Unless the "populists" actually get anywhere near an outright majority, they're not likely to be able to block any appointments or initiatives by themselves - and the talk of "populism" encompasses quite a range of stances, so they'll be split into various usually completely opposing factions anyway. And yes - even I can see how dangerous some forms of populism are and how their election to the parliament gets the exploiters of it the seal of authenticity they crave, along with a storm of publicity and - of course - some handsome EU funding.

Originally Posted by paulry View Post
In some ways it could be well timed, forcing the EU to adapt so that it does not die. Question is, is there anything fundamentally good about the EU that is worth saving? I'd say yes there is along the lines of a loose cooperation of independent nation states, each with full control of their national borders, economies, currencies and laws.

As for whether a populist takeover will happen or not, it aint over until the fat lady sings ....But it's certainly got much of the EU ruling elite rattled!
Ah, well - I guess you're trying to push this towards the "unless you cede ground to the nativists / nationalists, you're going to see a rise in that sort of thing" along with a bit of pretend hand-wringing but it's not a view I subscribe to because I don't attribute the current increase to the same factors you do in the first place.
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Old Nov 14th 2018, 3:44 pm
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Default Re: The future populist-run EU

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post

Ah, well - I guess you're trying to push this towards the "unless you cede ground to the nativists / nationalists, you're going to see a rise in that sort of thing" along with a bit of pretend hand-wringing but it's not a view I subscribe to because I don't attribute the current increase to the same factors you do in the first place.

That's been one of his for ages. Concede to/behave like the right wing in order to avoid the right wing.


PS: Is this thread actually about anything, or is it just another string for Paulry to talk about his favourite beliefs and feelings?
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Old Nov 14th 2018, 3:54 pm
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Default Re: The future populist-run EU

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
That's been one of his for ages. Concede to/behave like the right wing in order to avoid the right wing.


PS: Is this thread actually about anything, or is it just another string for Paulry to talk about his favourite beliefs and feelings?
The latter
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Old Nov 19th 2018, 6:38 am
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Default Re: The future populist-run EU

I see Steve Bannon recently did an Oxford Union address.

Watching it, it strikes me how genuine and coherent his message is and how what he says makes so much sense. He speaks a lot about Europe, Trump and Brexit - and of course they are all interconnected: Waning corporate globalism and resurgent populist nationalism. Goliath meets David. For a change we have leaders who are actually on our side.


...And the usual unruly children outside:

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Old Nov 19th 2018, 6:51 am
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Default Re: The future populist-run EU

Wasn't there a similar movement back in the late 30's?
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Old Nov 19th 2018, 8:04 am
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Default Re: The future populist-run EU

Originally Posted by paulry View Post
That's a good point. But it'll be interesting to see how that goes if enough MEPs refuse to rubber stamp anything. Then we have the matter of the 30 elected commissioners, appointed six months after the elections, approved by the MEPS and picked by the commission president who is him/herself appointed by the member states. I think even you should be able to appreciate how significant the populist winds of change can be to the EU. In some ways it could be well timed, forcing the EU to adapt so that it does not die. Question is, is there anything fundamentally good about the EU that is worth saving? I'd say yes there is along the lines of a loose cooperation of independent nation states, each with full control of their national borders, economies, currencies and laws.

As for whether a populist takeover will happen or not, it aint over until the fat lady sings ....But it's certainly got much of the EU ruling elite rattled!

https://www.politico.eu/article/comm...ment-election/

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-dead-struggle

https://knowledge.insead.edu/blog/in...populism-10416
Just add a deal to facilitate trade then maybe they will come up with a novel new name, something like Common Market
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Old Nov 19th 2018, 9:06 am
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Default Re: The future populist-run EU

Originally Posted by Fredbargate View Post
Just add a deal to facilitate trade then maybe they will come up with a novel new name, something like Common Market
A great idea! I reckon it'll have people queuing up to join it.
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Old Nov 19th 2018, 9:22 am
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Default Re: The future populist-run EU

The EU 'a crumbling block' LIE
'Majority Populists' Made up phrase... still a LIE
'Creeping Ferderalism' British view only.....still a LIE
'Steve Bannon' Are you for real?
'Facilitate Trade' What exactly do you know about trade?
'Common Market? Britain scuppered that way back when, by sitting on the fence,refusing to take part , heckling from the sidelines.. Employing people like BOJO to LIE
Now why in hell would the EU want that back again ? Just go why don't you .
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Old Nov 19th 2018, 1:15 pm
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Default Re: The future populist-run EU

The EU Parliament has no legislative initiative so it can’t propose laws but it could potentially put a brake on the worst federalist excesses of the Commission. Any real change in direction will need to come from the Commission so it would rely on national governments to start making Eurosceptic appointments. I can’t see that happening as it stands.
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Old Nov 19th 2018, 2:44 pm
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Default Re: The future populist-run EU

Unfortunately, things keep getting better, so despite the disappointment of the fascists populists hoping for total collapse, you're probably right.
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