Equality!

Old Feb 9th 2020, 10:55 pm
  #61  
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Default Re: Equality!

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
I thought your discussion was about whether women were capable of doing the same jobs as men as effectively. My point was that if they've met the requirements for that job, then they absolutely should be employed to do it if they choose to.

If we're now moving on to discussing whether women should be appointed because of their gender, well that depends on certain factors. Political parties for example, have been actively pushing for female candidates over males to improve the balance of MPs within their parties, which can be a good thing as long as males are not excluded from standing. It's wrong that a large percentage of MPs are male when the population of the country is almost 50-50 male-female. But certain jobs are exempted from equal opportunities, and rightly so.

In my line of work, only females can (and should) search females, and males search males. In that context, and everything else being equal (qualifications, experience and aptitude), a female applicant will likely get the job over a male because of her gender because we need more staff able to search females (especially at events where these would make up a greater percentage of attendees). But they'll still be the best candidate for the job they're being hired to do, and will have met or exceeded the requirement of the job application.
Why is that wrong? Perhaps women aren't as interested in becoming an MP? Perhaps women aren't as good as men at becoming an MP?
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Old Feb 9th 2020, 10:56 pm
  #62  
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Default Re: Equality!

Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
Women choose not to be garbage collectors. Begs the question, which is the more intelligent gender.
They also choose not to be CEOs or Board members.
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Old Feb 9th 2020, 10:59 pm
  #63  
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Default Re: Equality!

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
But there are so many situations where this is not working, for example every Trash collector I have had is male.
Women seem less keen on the outside work in inclement weather, heavy moving and danger of trash collection - but they want to be paid the same for wiping a desk in a warm office. Work of "equal value" apparently.
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Old Feb 9th 2020, 11:09 pm
  #64  
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Default Re: Equality!

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
Reading that Angela Leadsom wants more women in the cabinet makes me wonder if equality is something she really wants or is simply fighting her corner for women i.e. gender! Shouldn't it be 'the best for the job'? She maybe doesn't want real equality as that would mean women being excluded because they are unsuitable for the job, i. e. the military, Police or Fire Service for example where physical attributes are more important. Her idea of equality ie simply an equal number of women and men in a particular organisation, i.e. gender equality regardless of quality or suitability for the job.

There are positions where women are far more suitable than men but this is never an issue but It is always an issue where there are more men than women! I doubt she wants equality based on suitability rather than equality based on gender and that is, in my view, totally unacceptable.

Just so long as there is no lessening of standards (on account of gender) when it comes to selecting women for any position mentioned above then it's a no brainer. Many women now drive big tractor trailers cross country and handle them as competently as any of their male counterparts
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Old Feb 10th 2020, 12:41 am
  #65  
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Default Re: Equality!

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Why is that wrong? Perhaps women aren't as interested in becoming an MP?
Or maybe they're not wanting the abuse and the worse treatment the media and public gives women compared to what men in public life get..... Consider some of the things men like Prince Philip, Boris Johnson and Jeremy Clarkson get away with saying, yet the minute someone like Diane Abbott is pushed into misquoting something, she faces a torrent of personal attacks.

https://www.newstatesman.com/2017/09...d-diane-abbott

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...eats-they-face

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45363720

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a7086436.html

Perhaps women aren't as good as men at becoming an MP?
Do you feel they may not be as good? An interesting phrasing of an opinion there?

I'd suggest women are better listeners, less likely to view Parliament as a competition, and they're a damn site more caring than some of our current incumbents....

Personally, as long as my MP represents their constituents effectively, who cares whether they have an 'innie' or an outie'....
Spoiler:
Belly button. Just as relevant as their gender.




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Old Feb 10th 2020, 12:54 am
  #66  
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Default Re: Equality!


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Old Feb 10th 2020, 1:24 am
  #67  
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Default Re: Equality!

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Or maybe they're not wanting the abuse and the worse treatment the media and public gives women compared to what men in public life get..... Consider some of the things men like Prince Philip, Boris Johnson and Jeremy Clarkson get away with saying, yet the minute someone like Diane Abbott is pushed into misquoting something, she faces a torrent of personal attacks.

https://www.newstatesman.com/2017/09...d-diane-abbott

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...eats-they-face

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45363720

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a7086436.html


Your links or examples do not show female MPs getting more abuse and worse treatment than male ones (Clarkson etc are not MPs).

Do you feel they may not be as good? An interesting phrasing of an opinion there?

I'd suggest women are better listeners, less likely to view Parliament as a competition, and they're a damn site more caring than some of our current incumbents....
Becoming is not being.

Personally, as long as my MP represents their constituents effectively, who cares whether they have an 'innie' or an outie'....
Spoiler:
Belly button. Just as relevant as their gender.


Then why worry if it's not 50%?

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Old Feb 10th 2020, 5:34 am
  #68  
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Default Re: Equality!

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
You do realise that it's illegal to state a preference for female job applicants in the UK, don't you? Unless it's for an exempted category.

No, everything being equal, I have no preference for either a male or female co-worker. As long as they're qualified and can do the job they're employed for, it's irrelevant. Let's look at it this way, would you prefer a male because of their gender? And if the answer's yes, why?

Here's a question relating to what I said earlier about searching. Would you prefer a female to search your wife/partner for entry to a gig or event, or a male?
I'm being absolutely honest when I say I have no preference. We travel a lot and have been subject to several searches by both men and women without any issues.

Yes I'm aware that it is illegal to state a preference when looking for applicants. You will also be aware that, particularly government and council recruiting, publicly state that they actively and positively look to recruit more women and ethnic minorities to encourage diversity!!! Having the cake and eating it!!!!!

As for working with male or female, I have done both and with no problems. It would seem that we agree that employing anyone because of their gender only is wrong,.
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Old Feb 10th 2020, 10:16 am
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Default Re: Equality!

Anybody know if the UK woman finished the SAS selection course?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/915700...m-afghan-hero/

If a person is qualified to do the job then no problem. So what happens when X amount of candidates apply for X job and there is a written test that tests knowledge, writing abilities, decision making etc etc.
Applicants are marked on each category. So who should get the job the applicant with the highest overall score? The applicant with the highest average in all categories? The applicant who is female? The applicant who is a visible minority? The applicant who has a disability? The applicant who identifies as non gender?

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Old Feb 10th 2020, 10:25 am
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Default Re: Equality!

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
They do in Europe but the point is do they do it as well?

Of course they do you numpty... What do you mean by 'do it as well' ? as well as what ?... A man !!!? I suggest that you read the fascinating book I am reading at the moment

BLOODY BRILLIANT WOMAN by Kathy Newman.. She writes about the many MANY woman who changed the course of history through the ages ... and not unsurprisingly .. in a male dominated world, Got diddly squat reward or publicity for their work.. often belittled and sidelined . Everything from suggesting and planning the NHS. to flying every type of plane in Britain during WW2 ( Even Queen Elizabeth was a mechanic then ) Their talents and abilities were and are mind boggling ..Time and again though ,in the world of politics they come up against Male prejudice ,tradition and worst of all.. Female prejudice form those women in politics who should be supporting them Maggie Thatcher being the greatest amongst those who put other women down
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Old Feb 10th 2020, 10:35 am
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Default Re: Equality!

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
They also choose not to be CEOs or Board members.
And in what country is that then?
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Old Feb 10th 2020, 3:35 pm
  #72  
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Default Re: Equality!

Originally Posted by GeniB View Post
Of course they do you numpty... What do you mean by 'do it as well' ? as well as what ?... A man !!!? I suggest that you read the fascinating book I am reading at the moment

BLOODY BRILLIANT WOMAN by Kathy Newman.. She writes about the many MANY woman who changed the course of history through the ages ... and not unsurprisingly .. in a male dominated world, Got diddly squat reward or publicity for their work.. often belittled and sidelined . Everything from suggesting and planning the NHS. to flying every type of plane in Britain during WW2 ( Even Queen Elizabeth was a mechanic then ) Their talents and abilities were and are mind boggling ..Time and again though ,in the world of politics they come up against Male prejudice ,tradition and worst of all.. Female prejudice form those women in politics who should be supporting them Maggie Thatcher being the greatest amongst those who put other women down
Save the insult. Insults reflect on you. If you don't understand what I mean't 'by as well' that's your problem. Unlike you I have already read the book though it is of no relevance to this thread. The thread is asking should women be appointed because of their gender not how many women are (or were) good at their job!
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Old Feb 10th 2020, 3:47 pm
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Default Re: Equality!

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
Anybody know if the UK woman finished the SAS selection course?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/915700...m-afghan-hero/

If a person is qualified to do the job then no problem. So what happens when X amount of candidates apply for X job and there is a written test that tests knowledge, writing abilities, decision making etc etc.
Applicants are marked on each category. So who should get the job the applicant with the highest overall score? The applicant with the highest average in all categories? The applicant who is female? The applicant who is a visible minority? The applicant who has a disability? The applicant who identifies as non gender?
If only life, or selection of a candidate to do a job were so simple! It isn't, so your posing of several requirements is redundant I'm afraid. For example: If I were selecting someone to fill a public relations post I would need that person to be articulate, endearing, warm and intelligent. What good is someone with the personality of a corpse ? He/she may be as qualified as can be, be as nice a person as you would find anywhere but would be useless in the role. as a P.R. Qualifications are only a part of the selection process, physical, engaging, intelligence, appearance all play a part also other qualities come into play. Quite obviously, to answer your question, the best person for the job is the best person. You answered your own question in the first sentence.
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Old Feb 10th 2020, 4:14 pm
  #74  
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Default Re: Equality!

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
The thread is asking should women be appointed because of their gender not how many women are (or were) good at their job!
Then I'm reading these wrongly.

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Perhaps women aren't as good as men at becoming an MP?
Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
The fact does remain though that by far the majority of women are not suitable for the physical aspects of whatever profession. I haven't said there shouldn't be Policewomen or female firefighters but the work they do should be geared to their physical attributes.
Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
They do in Europe but the point is do they do it as well?
I think women are very capable of doing exactly the same job as their male counterparts, even where it requires physical effort. Gone are the days where Health and Safety allowed people to carry heavy loads on their own, and we've learned long ago that it's better sometimes to use a two-person lift or mechanical handling. A female worker is no more disadvantaged in physical labour than a male of the same stature.

As I've said before, as long as they meet the requirements for the job, who cares what gender they are. The best candidate should get hired.
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Old Feb 10th 2020, 4:39 pm
  #75  
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Default Re: Equality!

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
A female worker is no more disadvantaged in physical labour than a male of the same stature.
Our AC went down last summer and as an alternative/secondary/future back up I bought a free standing unit for immediate use.

I couldn't lift it off the floor in the store and an employee lifted it onto my trolley with a little help from me. Another member of staff loaded it into the taxi. She did it on her own.
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