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Enter the Wokeness

Enter the Wokeness

Old Jun 10th 2021, 11:38 pm
  #2536  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by paulry View Post
And that is exactly the point that he was making.
That he is a racist because he boos players taking a knee? I believe he is. He is booing an anti racist symbol or gesture.
He is making up excuses for the reason he boos that don't hold water as far as I'm concerned.
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Old Jun 10th 2021, 11:47 pm
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by johnwoo View Post
That he is a racist because he boos players taking a knee? I believe he is. He is booing an anti racist symbol or gesture.
He is making up excuses for the reason he boos that don't hold water as far as I'm concerned.

It used to be a good thing to support anti-racist gestures and activity. Apparently we mustn't do it any more, according to some. Such gestures and activism should be stopped - by any means necessary, as it were - so that people don't have to look at it or think about why the players might be doing this.
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Old Jun 11th 2021, 12:21 am
  #2538  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness



Well I am not going to stop her.
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Old Jun 11th 2021, 2:17 am
  #2539  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post


Well I am not going to stop her.

Please keep your fetishism to yourself. We all have a type. You're not special.
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Old Jun 11th 2021, 4:44 am
  #2540  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
...
The fans do have a part to play, in that racism needs to be immediately brought to the attention of ground stewards and security, but it's not always easy for those in the area to identify who said it, and those around the asshole either tend not to get involved or sometimes claim it was misheard. What we need is a hotline number to be able to text or an online reporting tool which links directly to the club, where people can list which block they're in and approximately which row and seat number it's come from.
...
Is this even remotely practical? Or even, reasonable? Are 'ground stewards' and 'security' going to haul away someone for allegedly making a racist comment? Are they trained to do this? In one of the Covid threads, we talk about how grocery store employees are not in the business of enforcing mask rules; are sports-facility employees really going to be expected to act on 'racism' accusations?

As for accusations of racism - are there well-defined guidelines for what constitutes racism in this context? If I, in my drunken stupor at an England/Wales soccer match yell out 'you bunch of Sheep Sha**ers', would I be subject to this 'attention'?

This all seems a bit Orwellian to me ...

Edit To Add - I want to be clear ... if you, as a security guard, hear someone clearly yell out a racist comment, then I'm assuming you'd take action as appropriate. What I'm commenting on here is, if someone says, "that guy over there, he yelled out "..." ", then what would you do? Ask others for confirmation? And if you then take action (eg, escorting him out), does he have the right to sue you or the stadium, claiming he did not say what he was accused of? Are there video cameras everywhere these days? Would you go round getting names and addresses from everyone so they could appear in court if needed, as witnesses?

I grew up in Northern England, and went to 'footy matches' every Saturday. Back then, there weren't any players 'of color' at all (nor fans) (1960's). Back then, teams were actually made up of significant 'local' talent. We were merciless about people from 'Down South', or even across the Pennines. If one of 'our team' transferred to the next town, he was a traitor and yelled at mercilessly. It seems to be the nature of the sport that fans find something to 'dislike' (using a mild term!) about the opposition!

Last edited by Steerpike; Jun 11th 2021 at 5:50 am.
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Old Jun 11th 2021, 5:13 am
  #2541  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
Not sure I agree with the Liberation cartoon. It appears to me they are on the field of play which is probably not the best place to be. Lawyers might disagree with me especially if the game is being played in the US.
It's a very clever cartoon, and I must say, it does convey a lot of meaning, but ... the fourth slide in the sequence might be an empty stadium with no players and no fans, since the fences got torn down and no one had to pay any longer to attend, so no revenue, no sport ...
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Old Jun 11th 2021, 6:20 am
  #2542  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Racism is a social product, in evidence at many a social occasion.

That said, why is it that evidence of "a movement" that asks for decent treatment and equity for all people so difficult for somebody to simply watch? Nobody's asking you to join in if you don't want to. Why can't you tolerate even seeing it? Why is a call for decency and respect "subjecting you" to anything?

Suppose the players held up signs that encouraged people to vote, or that people need jobs at a living wage, or need somewhere affordable to live, or that low-income kids need proper food in the summer, too? Would you be unable to watch that, as well?
Presumably, because sportsmen and women, 'celebrities', actors, entertainers etc etc aren't allowed to have opinions. They are supposed to just do their job and forget that they are also human beings.

Disclaimer: It obviously depends on what these people are showing solidarity towards.
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Old Jun 11th 2021, 6:20 am
  #2543  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

People just need to learn to get along regardless of cultural or racial differences, you don't need to be best friends, but just treat one another with respect, and equal.





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Old Jun 11th 2021, 6:56 am
  #2544  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
People just need to learn to get along regardless of cultural or racial differences, you don't need to be best friends, but just treat one another with respect, and equal.
Quality great post.
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Old Jun 11th 2021, 7:07 am
  #2545  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Bristol Bears form a heart to support Rugby against Racism

After a minute’s silence to pay to remember those who have died during the coronavirus pandemic and to the work of NHS staff, Bristol Bears players stood in a heart-shaped formation at Ashton Gate Stadium.

Ahead of the return of the Premiership season, it was Bristol’s way of showing respect for black lives and racial equality under the banner of Rugby Against Racism.

I wonder if it is acceptable to boo either of these gestures - the silence or the heart?

Or is it just the kneeling bit which manch objects to?

Would he observe the silence and then start booing as soon as the heart is formed immediately following it?

There was no crowd there but believe me - this is rugby not football - the silence would have been observed and the heart gesture met with either silence or applause - that's how rugby does things.







Last edited by jimenato; Jun 11th 2021 at 7:19 am.
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Old Jun 11th 2021, 7:10 am
  #2546  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

I wonder if there is enough strength in manch's convictions to boo the kneeling if no-one else did - or if he would only do that as part of a baying mob.
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Old Jun 11th 2021, 10:16 am
  #2547  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post


Well I am not going to stop her.
Not sure what she means?----it is not 'white supremacy' ---- just 'western' people have become interested in doing yoga exercises. (Teachers in country of origin---get lots of money running classes for tourists.)

Yoga Teacher Jessamyn Stanley Believes White Supremacy Has Polluted Yoga - and It's Time to Talk About It (msn.com)
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Old Jun 11th 2021, 10:41 am
  #2548  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
Scotland to "take a stand" in ongoing support of Glen Kamara who was racially abused by another player (who got a 10 match ban)
I like that it has a local cultural significance now for Scottish players.
https://worldsoccertalk.com/2021/06/...acism-gesture/
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Good for the Scots. Now that they've taken the complaining about the gesture of kneeling (and therefore the silly argument about 'submission') away from the snowflakes, does that mean we are now OK with people expressing solidarity across ethnicities and taking a stand for decent behaviour?
Stand against racism, or stand if you don't support it... How do supporters know which Scotland players are supporting the cause and which are not?

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post


Well I am not going to stop her.
No-one's asking you to stop her Boiler... People have the right to free speech, and others have the right to ignore it or laugh at it.



Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
Is this even remotely practical? Or even, reasonable? Are 'ground stewards' and 'security' going to haul away someone for allegedly making a racist comment? Are they trained to do this? In one of the Covid threads, we talk about how grocery store employees are not in the business of enforcing mask rules; are sports-facility employees really going to be expected to act on 'racism' accusations?
The first time is often a warning, and additional resources deployed. But the ground regulations clearly state that racist language will not be tolerated, and that offenders will be removed. And as a private property, the ground has every legal right to ask appropriately-trained staff remove anyone it chooses.

As for accusations of racism - are there well-defined guidelines for what constitutes racism in this context? If I, in my drunken stupor at an England/Wales soccer match yell out 'you bunch of Sheep Sha**ers', would I be subject to this 'attention'?
In an English ground, unlikely. In Wales, yes you would...

Man fined for racism after calling Welsh people 'sheep s******s'

Woman in court for racism after calling police officer a ‘sheep shagger’

This all seems a bit Orwellian to me ...
Wasn't Orwell the government doing the restricting?

In the sports ground, it's not only a private business deciding what happens on it's own premises, but also mandated by the national football assocations in order for the ground to be licensed to play the sporting fixtures. So even if the ground were to allow it, they could be required to play without fans if the breaches of regulations were serious enough or happened repeatedly.

Edit To Add - I want to be clear ... if you, as a security guard, hear someone clearly yell out a racist comment, then I'm assuming you'd take action as appropriate. What I'm commenting on here is, if someone says, "that guy over there, he yelled out "..." ", then what would you do? Ask others for confirmation? And if you then take action (eg, escorting him out), does he have the right to sue you or the stadium, claiming he did not say what he was accused of? Are there video cameras everywhere these days? Would you go round getting names and addresses from everyone so they could appear in court if needed, as witnesses?
You ask the surrounding fans if they heard it, but if as a steward, you heard it yourself, the next step is to get extra stewards and security to identify the offender, and trained Response Stewards then remove the person for a discussion on appropriate behaviour, and if they take on board the advice, they often get to return to their seat. If they want to argue, they're invited outside and the doors close behind them. Either way, their details will be flagged for future games, and noted at every future briefing.

The person can try to so, but as mentioned above, the ground rules are clear that removal is an option. Every Response Steward has a body cam which is activated every time they need to speak with someone, and some of the 100+ cameras now have audio capability, that will increase as time goes on. And there are signs posted warning of this. If you don't warn to be recorded, watch it on TV with Alexa unplugged.
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Old Jun 11th 2021, 11:56 am
  #2549  
 
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post


Well I am not going to stop her.
Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
People just need to learn to get along regardless of cultural or racial differences, you don't need to be best friends, but just treat one another with respect, and equal.

Some people seem to struggle with that.
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Old Jun 11th 2021, 11:57 am
  #2550  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
Just dipping my toe in the water here, but if anyone knows anything about English football you will know that the taking the knee at football matches is pissing off the fans and making things worse.
If making things worse means getting the racist scum out in the open so we can deal with/educate them then the worse the better as far as I am concerned.
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