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Enter the Wokeness

Enter the Wokeness

Old Jun 10th 2021, 9:52 pm
  #2521  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
But that has value today. How can you compare the two?

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Old Jun 10th 2021, 9:56 pm
  #2522  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
I have not booed it yet but I would because I do not believe I should be subjugated to something that has no value today. Yesterday I would not have booed. All of your comparisons are stupid, as in dumbass stupid. I, as do many fans, think football and its supporters should not be subjected to any movement. It is a social occasion.
Sorry, that makes no sense. You just find the comparisons uncomfortable.
Social occasion. Does going to the pub count?
What do you do when the Salvation Army drops in selling their paper or the young soldier?
What about when someone sells raffle tickets in aid of something.
Or someone asks you to sponsor them for something.
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Old Jun 10th 2021, 10:13 pm
  #2523  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by paulry View Post
I asked a question: Do you treat people differently based on their skin colour?
Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
I asked a question too.
Which black civil rights organization would/did you support?
I answered your question so are you going to answer mine? Somehow I don't think so...


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Old Jun 10th 2021, 10:15 pm
  #2524  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
Another stupid comparison. We are talking about today and taking the knee at a football match. I will not get involved in history. This is not what these comments is about. It is about my freedom to express myself in a lawful way without being called racist.
Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize that your brain doesn't work at all. I was pointing out how far things have come with protest in general. But here, since you mentioned it . . .


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Old Jun 10th 2021, 10:18 pm
  #2525  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by paulry View Post
I answered your question so are you going to answer mine? Somehow I don't think so...
I already did, but you missed it because you dont read good.
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Old Jun 10th 2021, 10:23 pm
  #2526  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
I haven't been to football this year but if I went I would boo if I saw my team taking the knee. Am I racist? Therein lies the argument. There is no in-between. If I don't boo I am not racist and if I do I am racist. Is that what you are saying because that alone pisses me off!
Originally Posted by johnwoo View Post
I'll go with your first choice.
And that is exactly the point that he was making.
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Old Jun 10th 2021, 10:27 pm
  #2527  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
Football has been tribal from day one. Players exist because of the fans. Without the fans there is no football. There is no need to psychoanalyse football fans. They do not like to be subjected to any movement when socialising at a football ground. It is a social occasion, nothing more, nothing less. You say maybe football is not for those who do not understand your views. Nice. You see what I mean when I say you all kick off from your ivory towers and everyone else is wrong. Why can't I disagree with taking the knee and not be implied a racist? Why can't I lawfully disagree with something at a football match?
The fan is not there as a surrogate. Where do you get all this from? He is there as a fan. From youngsters of five to the elderly in their eighties, they are just fans. Is your comparison good for all sporting events? Do I watch Formula One because \I want to be a racing driver? Wrestling because I want to be a wrestler? Ice skating? Come on, this psycho analysing stuff does not hold.
The time will soon come when a fan will be ejected from a ground because he boos taking the knee. Wait for it.
Ok, I'll run with that.

First of all, to clear the air, I never referred to you as a racist for disagreeing with taking the knee, there will be many reasons why this isn't racist, in fact I don't identify the knee with racism, to me it's all about defending civil rights or lack of them.

So if you see a white player taking a knee, how do you interpret that? Would you consider this to be a racist act because if it's racist to disagree then surely the act itself is racist and that's why I don't think either is racist.

I don't castigate you for disagreeing with the knee, I simply try to rationalise it.

But let's turn the argument on it's head and ask the question. "Why bother to watch formula one? Why watch wrestling? Why attend a football match?"

If it's just for companionship, a social gathering, the surely it's cheaper and just as satisfying to visit the pub.

If it's just to support a team then why idolise individual players and why hero worship by wearing numbered strip of individual players, an expression of surrogacy I think.

I understand that it's probably comforting to stand in a crowd of like minded team supporters and to share in the exhilaration of victory and the despair of failure, but I refuse to believe that fans don't have favourites and that they're upset when their hero essentially turns on them by expressing views they disagree with.

But I accept that my views may be wrong, that I'm in a majority of one, and you're welcome to tell me that I'm an idiot, you won't have been the first, but what I try to do is to table ideas, provocative or otherwise, and I always welcome considered replies.
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Old Jun 10th 2021, 10:31 pm
  #2528  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by paulry View Post
I asked a question: Do you treat people differently based on their skin colour?
​​​​​​​
Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
Well I would listen to a black person to tell me their real world experience, rather than saying that I know best about their experience. Because you know I don't have to support any of their organizations, I can fight it better myself.
Originally Posted by paulry View Post
I answered your question so are you going to answer mine? Somehow I don't think so...
Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
I already did, but you missed it because you dont read good.
Maybe that's because you didn't actually answer the question. I'll ask again but this time I'll make it a little simpler for you: Do you treat people differently based on their skin colour? Yes or No?
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Old Jun 10th 2021, 10:53 pm
  #2529  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
That is because they are "Indigenous People of North America" not because they are 'of colour'!
There are 'brown' people all over the world ----most don't carry traditional medicine bags!
(How many of the former do you 'deal' with as a customs officer?)
I don't know if you are being just curious or obtuse but I deal with thousands of white, black, brown or any other colour humans come in. They are not all the same so I have to be cognizant of how to deal with them however at the end of the day should they not wish to comply legally with my requests in order for me to carry out my job within the legislative parameters of my job then they get arrested, simple as that.

That is why I treat persons of colour differently due to cultural differences that might make some posters cringe. I have probably arrested more white people than persons of colour. Preferably I would prefer not to arrest anybody but some just don't get it and I have a job to do regardless of their beliefs.
My definition of a person of colour is someone who is not white.
There does this answer your question? If it doesn't then no further clarification from me will be forthcoming.
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Old Jun 10th 2021, 11:05 pm
  #2530  
 
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by paulry View Post
I answered your question so are you going to answer mine? Somehow I don't think so...

I have a question - what, if anything, would you do to right a wrong?

Do you agree that someone who has stolen something should pay it back, for example?

Or does that depend on what colour the person who has been robbed is?
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Old Jun 10th 2021, 11:12 pm
  #2531  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Scotland to "take a stand" in ongoing support of Glen Kamara who was racially abused by another player (who got a 10 match ban)
I like that it has a local cultural significance now for Scottish players.
https://worldsoccertalk.com/2021/06/...acism-gesture/

Last edited by kimilseung; Jun 10th 2021 at 11:18 pm.
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Old Jun 10th 2021, 11:12 pm
  #2532  
 
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
I have not booed it yet but I would because I do not believe I should be subjugated to something that has no value today. Yesterday I would not have booed. All of your comparisons are stupid, as in dumbass stupid. I, as do many fans, think football and its supporters should not be subjected to any movement. It is a social occasion.

To ignore it gives acceptance to other movements to be shown at football matches.

Racism is a social product, in evidence at many a social occasion.

That said, why is it that evidence of "a movement" that asks for decent treatment and equity for all people so difficult for somebody to simply watch? Nobody's asking you to join in if you don't want to. Why can't you tolerate even seeing it? Why is a call for decency and respect "subjecting you" to anything?

Suppose the players held up signs that encouraged people to vote, or that people need jobs at a living wage, or need somewhere affordable to live, or that low-income kids need proper food in the summer, too? Would you be unable to watch that, as well?
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Old Jun 10th 2021, 11:16 pm
  #2533  
 
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
Scotland to "take a stand" in ongoing support of Glen Kamara who was radially abused by another player (who got a 10 match ban)
I like that it has a local cultural significance now for Scottish players.
https://worldsoccertalk.com/2021/06/...acism-gesture/

Good for the Scots. Now that they've taken the complaining about the gesture of kneeling (and therefore the silly argument about 'submission') away from the snowflakes, does that mean we are now OK with people expressing solidarity across ethnicities and taking a stand for decent behaviour?
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Old Jun 10th 2021, 11:21 pm
  #2534  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Good for the Scots. Now that they've taken the complaining about the gesture of kneeling (and therefore the silly argument about 'submission') away from the snowflakes, does that mean we are now OK with people expressing solidarity across ethnicities and taking a stand for decent behaviour?
Defendants have to stand, its like saying we are guilty. Supplicants have to stand, no, no, this isnt right, its tyranny.
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Old Jun 10th 2021, 11:26 pm
  #2535  
 
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
Defendants have to stand, its like saying we are guilty. Supplicants have to stand, no, no, this isnt right, its tyranny.

True. And children have to stand when called in by their head teacher for a telling off.

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