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Enter the Wokeness

Enter the Wokeness

Old Aug 12th 2020, 9:19 pm
  #181  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
Reading Paulry's link, (the first few tweets, at least) taken at face value, reinforces my first post on the matter, Paulry is tone deaf to the danger that some kids still face. I am amazed at how accepting the kids in my school are, compared to my generation at that age, its amazing by comparison, but kids still need bravery to be who they are. Paulry, clearly has no interest in their welfare, and we are talking about the legally protected privacy of 13+ (my jurisdiction at least) kids, as the repercussions of what we are talking about, have emotional and mental health implications. What hell hole does he have outlined in his head for these kids? Maybe Paulry doesn't know what a monster, wanting to out kids to their parents makes him look, or maybe he does?
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
He doesn't care. He wants parents helicoptering all the time so that nobody mentions in the kids' hearing anything which parents have not censored and approved, particularly with regard to sexuality. There is no understanding of teenagers' need for privacy, no understanding of what it's like to be a kid who isn't mainstream in some way but who has a parent who is less than accepting, no understanding of how young people grow and learn to take responsibility for themselves. No understanding of how people learn to think, and not be spoon-fed or simply believe what they are told. In such a mind, children are property. Simple. To be molded in the shape of the parent. Watching. Always watching. And judging.
Wow, both of your posts are pure bonkers.

Parents are absolutely entitled to know what our children are being taught at school and are absolutely within our rights to have a say and influence in the matter. To suggest that we don't have that right or that right is unwelcome and interfering and must be unquestioningly given up to the whims of a bunch of people - many of whom have very different world views is frankly appalling. Our children are entitled to our protection from influences that we, their parents deem inappropriate. Kids need to be allowed to be kids - not confused about sexuality and brainwashed with deeply divisive cultural Marxist bullshit. As responsible parents we have absolutely every right to develop our children to be the best they can be, and for them to have the same beliefs that we have - just like for countless generations before us. We want successful and cohesive individuals, families, communities and nations. Not division and dysfunction. It disgusts me that you two seem to think that teachers have the right to get at our children and indoctrinate them. Disgraceful. ​​​​​​​
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Old Aug 12th 2020, 9:29 pm
  #182  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by paulry View Post
Wow, both of your posts are pure bonkers.

Parents are absolutely entitled to know what our children are being taught at school and are absolutely within our rights to have a say and influence in the matter. To suggest that we don't have that right or that right is unwelcome and interfering and must be unquestioningly given up to the whims of a bunch of people - many of whom have very different world views is frankly appalling. Our children are entitled to our protection from influences that we, their parents deem inappropriate. Kids need to be allowed to be kids - not confused about sexuality and brainwashed with deeply divisive cultural Marxist bullshit. As responsible parents we have absolutely every right to develop our children to be the best they can be, and for them to have the same beliefs that we have - just like for countless generations before us. We want successful and cohesive individuals, families, communities and nations. Not division and dysfunction. It disgusts me that you two seem to think that teachers have the right to get at our children and indoctrinate them. Disgraceful.
The legal rights that children of high school age have, to protect against their parents from accessing their medical, physical and mental health, information, that other professionals also try to honor, exist, because of people like you.
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Old Aug 12th 2020, 9:45 pm
  #183  
 
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by paulry View Post
Wow, both of your posts are pure bonkers.

Parents are absolutely entitled to know what our children are being taught at school and are absolutely within our rights to have a say and influence in the matter. To suggest that we don't have that right or that right is unwelcome and interfering and must be unquestioningly given up to the whims of a bunch of people - many of whom have very different world views is frankly appalling. Our children are entitled to our protection from influences that we, their parents deem inappropriate. Kids need to be allowed to be kids - not confused about sexuality and brainwashed with deeply divisive cultural Marxist bullshit. As responsible parents we have absolutely every right to develop our children to be the best they can be, and for them to have the same beliefs that we have - just like for countless generations before us. We want successful and cohesive individuals, families, communities and nations. Not division and dysfunction. It disgusts me that you two seem to think that teachers have the right to get at our children and indoctrinate them. Disgraceful.

Good grief

Some of us have good relationships with our children that include love, trust and room to breathe so they can develop. It seems to work better than efforts to control their every interaction with the world. Also, some of us don't think that our teenagers are so stupid that they simply believe everything they are told. In fact, if we pay attention to them at all we see that they believe almost nothing that they are told, but rather have an insatiable need to find things out for themselves and build their own views.

There aren't any Marxists under our beds the last time I checked, either. Given the youtube and 4chan content that you devour and then spread around the internet, I would say that you are far more likely to be indoctrinating people with something unsavoury than any of my son's high school teachers. You just don't like others challenging your views or even saying anything that runs counter to them.

Last edited by Lion in Winter; Aug 12th 2020 at 10:12 pm.
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Old Aug 12th 2020, 9:52 pm
  #184  
 
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
The legal rights that children of high school age have, to protect against their parents from accessing their medical, physical and mental health, information, that other professionals also try to honor, exist, because of people like you.

My son got age-appropriate sex ed from me, and also at school at various stages of his school career, again at age appropriate levels building in mutual respect, relationship management, etc etc. And as a boy, as time went on there were things that he just wouldn't want to talk about with his mum. Being a public school, the curriculum was free of any religious content. I left them to it, and my son would talk about it at home, or not, as he chose. The high school had a clinic, which required initial parental permission for the teenagers to use, but after that the kids could go and consult and have conversations at will. The clinic only had to advise parents in case of concerns of mental or physical health. They used to hand out free condoms. My son once came home with a little bag, giggling away. He was not yet sexually active in that way, as far as I know - the main lesson there was "take precautions" and sexual health. My son also told me that he sometimes talked with counselors there about personal issues. This all seemed to me exactly as it should be. I'm glad he had somewhere to go and I wish I'd had the same. He now seems to be a very well-adjusted young man, and he's not even turned into a Marxist or anything.

Last edited by Lion in Winter; Aug 12th 2020 at 10:01 pm.
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Old Aug 13th 2020, 7:53 am
  #185  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
The legal rights that children of high school age have, to protect against their parents from accessing their medical, physical and mental health, information, that other professionals also try to honor, exist, because of people like you.
So you think it's okay for teachers to influence children to be at social and political odds with their parents - without the parents' knowledge or consent, and you believe parents have no rights to know how their children are doing medically, physically and mentally? So where does the buck stop when these kids need special treatments or medications? Do the teachers manage that too?
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Old Aug 13th 2020, 12:39 pm
  #186  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
My son got age-appropriate sex ed from me, and also at school at various stages of his school career, again at age appropriate levels building in mutual respect, relationship management, etc etc. And as a boy, as time went on there were things that he just wouldn't want to talk about with his mum. Being a public school, the curriculum was free of any religious content. I left them to it, and my son would talk about it at home, or not, as he chose. The high school had a clinic, which required initial parental permission for the teenagers to use, but after that the kids could go and consult and have conversations at will. The clinic only had to advise parents in case of concerns of mental or physical health. They used to hand out free condoms. My son once came home with a little bag, giggling away. He was not yet sexually active in that way, as far as I know - the main lesson there was "take precautions" and sexual health. My son also told me that he sometimes talked with counselors there about personal issues. This all seemed to me exactly as it should be. I'm glad he had somewhere to go and I wish I'd had the same. He now seems to be a very well-adjusted young man, and he's not even turned into a Marxist or anything.
Lack of training
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Old Aug 13th 2020, 12:49 pm
  #187  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by paulry View Post
So you think it's okay for teachers to influence children to be at social and political odds with their parents - without the parents' knowledge or consent, and you believe parents have no rights to know how their children are doing medically, physically and mentally? So where does the buck stop when these kids need special treatments or medications? Do the teachers manage that too?
I'd suggest 99%+ of teachers teach the curriculum without any personal bias. What biases did your teachers have when you were at school that made you have this distrust?

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Old Aug 13th 2020, 12:54 pm
  #188  
 
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by paulry View Post
So you think it's okay for teachers to influence children to be at social and political odds with their parents - without the parents' knowledge or consent, and you believe parents have no rights to know how their children are doing medically, physically and mentally? So where does the buck stop when these kids need special treatments or medications? Do the teachers manage that too?
How out of touch are you with your kids that you know nothing of what they are thinking, feeling and doing, and how their health is? That would just be a very poor parent-child relationship, and those are the kids most likely to need outside help.

You just want to prevent them from hearing things you don't like. You don't think that the things you disagree with, such as gay people getting married, should be openly discussed because that would legitimize something that makes you uncomfortable.

Oh and yes, it is ok for teenagers to disagree with their parents on social and political issues. It is normal, healthy, and in some cases a very good thing. They are people, not property.

What's next, book burning?

Last edited by Lion in Winter; Aug 13th 2020 at 1:10 pm.
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Old Aug 13th 2020, 12:56 pm
  #189  
 
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
Lack of training
I'm going to call his high school right now, and complain. Four years they had him, and they couldn't even indoctrinate him with that one simple thing.
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Old Aug 13th 2020, 12:57 pm
  #190  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Good grief

Some of us have good relationships with our children that include love, trust and room to breathe so they can develop. It seems to work better than efforts to control their every interaction with the world. Also, some of us don't think that our teenagers are so stupid that they simply believe everything they are told. In fact, if we pay attention to them at all we see that they believe almost nothing that they are told, but rather have an insatiable need to find things out for themselves and build their own views.

There aren't any Marxists under our beds the last time I checked, either. Given the youtube and 4chan content that you devour and then spread around the internet, I would say that you are far more likely to be indoctrinating people with something unsavoury than any of my son's high school teachers. You just don't like others challenging your views or even saying anything that runs counter to them.
Agree with most of what you say, however it does depend on the school and how the lessons are planned.
Parents should know what and when also because of younger siblings.
My young son had a good lesson at school (parents knew nothing about it) was 'singing' about it in the back of the car on the way home.------suddenly---
"Guess what's going to happen to you when you're 13"!---is not the way I wanted his five year old sister to find out about periods!!
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Old Aug 13th 2020, 1:05 pm
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Agree with most of what you say, however it does depend on the school and how the lessons are planned.
Parents should know what and when also because of younger siblings.
My young son had a good lesson at school (parents knew nothing about it) was 'singing' about it in the back of the car on the way home.------suddenly---
"Guess what's going to happen to you when you're 13"!---is not the way I wanted his five year old sister to find out about periods!!
But it is parental life Sex ed in particular is important for this very reason though, or little kids get their info from semi-informed older kids.

We were always informed if there was to be a sex ed class and that's standard here.

Last edited by Lion in Winter; Aug 13th 2020 at 1:07 pm.
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Old Aug 13th 2020, 1:28 pm
  #192  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
I'm going to call his high school right now, and complain. Four years they had him, and they couldn't even indoctrinate him with that one simple thing.
I actually had Trained Marxist teachers for biology, history and religious education. And the historian was actually married to the secretary of our local communist party branch. And this was a very conservative boys school, founded in 1418.

And yes, I was hopelessly in love with the communist, and it wasn’t just Marxism I wanted her to train me in.
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Old Aug 13th 2020, 2:04 pm
  #193  
 
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
I actually had Trained Marxist teachers for biology, history and religious education. And the historian was actually married to the secretary of our local communist party branch. And this was a very conservative boys school, founded in 1418.

And yes, I was hopelessly in love with the communist, and it wasn’t just Marxism I wanted her to train me in.

Those 15th century Marxists were the most dangerous.

It's amazing the country has survived at all, given the situation you describe. I don't think I got an actual Marxist teacher until uni, a history prof. He used to say he was happy when people red-baited him, because he then knew that at least they didn't think he was a Liberal.

Communist ladies do seem to hold a certain appeal for young men. My OH was the same way, and used to hang out with assorted left wing causes to chat with the girls. Not sure what training may or may not have taken place...
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Old Aug 13th 2020, 2:54 pm
  #194  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Originally Posted by paulry View Post
So you think it's okay for teachers to influence children to be at social and political odds with their parents - without the parents' knowledge or consent, and you believe parents have no rights to know how their children are doing medically, physically and mentally? So where does the buck stop when these kids need special treatments or medications? Do the teachers manage that too?
While I never said any of those things, I am not in any legislative body and have not passed any legislation, I am informing you of how the law is, in at least some places.
"you believe " if this is asking about confirming my opinion on the legislation, I didnt give any direct opinion. If it was asking if I believe that to be the case, in law, then yes I believe it, because that is how the facts are..
My kid has again and again given me access to the medical information. (maybe there is something they are keeping secret, I dont think so, but, hey, perhaps if they are, then it isn't my business.) but it is definitely not the teachers business to decide. Why would you want to give teachers this power, some of them are are extreme Marxists don't you know?.

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Old Aug 13th 2020, 3:16 pm
  #195  
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Default Re: Enter the Wokeness

Imagine being such a bad parent that you think your kids might keep important mental health secrets form you.
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