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Derek Chauvin trial

Derek Chauvin trial

Old Mar 31st 2021, 12:27 pm
  #46  
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by Watchpost View Post
I had only just bought and moved into a new home, had no TV, didn't get a daily paper and there was no Internet - I didn't really follow the King trial and aftermath either.

There's a lot of info on Wikipedia though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_King

The big takeaway for me from the Wikipedia article is that even thirty years ago, the authorities at a higher level didn't play this down. The cops were charged by the Los Angeles County District Attorney. Subsequently there was a second trial launched by the United States Department of Justice.

Yet the feeling among a large part of the population seems to have been that if you don't "comply" with the cops, anything goes. And in the US, with jury trials, that sentiment may be (and evidently was) held by the people tasked with administering justice.

I tend to think that the US justice system is lagging public opinion, but maybe it's just as much the other way around.

And another thing: the only reason the Rodney King incident became an historical event (including the LA riots, in which 63(!) people died) is because purely coincidentally, a plumbing salesman and hobbyist videographer happened to be watching from across the street. And even then, only because - which I find quite staggering - when he offered the cops the tape, they weren't even interested! Seriously, not only did they consider beating King half to death a non-issue, they didn't even see any need to collect the tape, and take control of the narrative, perhaps making the tape disappear.
I also didn't have a TV at the time. I guess this was at the outset of citizen journalism, and home video was not common back then. Without the web there wasn't even much way for public opinion to express itself (other than protests and riots). Thirty years ago seems like yesterday, but actually a lot as changed.
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Old Mar 31st 2021, 1:24 pm
  #47  
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
It's easy to dismiss if the Police can say he deserved it because he was resisting arrest, but once it's shown that actually, no, it wasn't deserved, public opinion changes.
Unless he was 'on drugs' or was a bad'un.
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Old Mar 31st 2021, 2:16 pm
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Unless he was 'on drugs' or was a bad'un.

"Doped up" is the term you are looking for. "Doped up" and "not doing what he was told". Capital crimes, apparently.
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Old Mar 31st 2021, 2:35 pm
  #49  
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
"Doped up" is the term you are looking for. "Doped up" and "not doing what he was told". Capital crimes, apparently.
I knew a specific phrase was used but I couldn't remember it and didn't want to go looking . But yes, on drugs might mean medication.
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Old Mar 31st 2021, 2:41 pm
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

So what was this case of assault due to then?

"Hall, who had been recording criminal activity during the protests, became separated from his partner while fleeing officers who were firing pepper-spray pellets and bean bag rounds into the crowd. The assistant US attorney Carrie Costantin told the jurors that as Hall was complying with orders to get on the ground, he was knocked down, hit, picked up and knocked down again before being attacked with fists, feet and a baton. Hall said he did not push, fight or pull away from the officers. He said he was stunned. “I couldn’t believe it was happening,” he told the jury... ...Hall suffered a hole in his lip that had to be stitched closed, injuries to his jaw and injuries to his neck that would later require spinal fusion. He also was unable to eat solid food for weeks, causing him to lose 20lbs."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...box=1617142398


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Old Mar 31st 2021, 2:42 pm
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
I knew a specific phrase was used but I couldn't remember it and didn't want to go looking . But yes, on drugs might mean medication.

Or even if it doesn't. The police don't get to be judge, jury and executioners. Their job is to uphold rule of law, not decide what the law is on the spur of the moment.

I know you know this of course. Just making the point.
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Old Mar 31st 2021, 3:15 pm
  #52  
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Why did he deserve to be arressted? From what I've seen that isn't entirely evident. If anything racial bias does seem to have occurred at the initial arrest stage.
This is your opinion. The police weren't just randomly patrolling the neighborhood and happened to encounter Floyd.
Here's what happened, based on the clerk's testimony:
1. Floyd tried to pass bills the clerk believed were counterfeit to buy a pack of cigarettes. The clerk also testified that Floyd was intoxicated.
2. The clerk told his manager that he believed the bills were counterfeit. The store's policy was if an employee accepted counterfeit bills, they themselves would have to cover the cost of lost money.
3. The clerk was told by his manager to go out to Floyd's car and ask him to return inside
4. Floyd refused to return to the store. Floyd caused enough of a disturbance that the clerks called the police.

Interestingly, Chauvin is alsosaid have a lengthy rap sheet on complaints of brutality, and his prior record is something that is not admissable as evidence.
Absolutely true. Please reread what I posted. Yes, Floyd's priors are not relevant to this case, but they are almost certainly going to be brought up in court.

Speaking personally, Floyd's (extremely serious) priors give lie to the cuddly persona the media has built up around him. This makes me doubt the media's integrity here.
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Old Mar 31st 2021, 3:58 pm
  #53  
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
Absolutely true. Please reread what I posted. Yes, Floyd's priors are not relevant to this case, but they are almost certainly going to be brought up in court.
Speaking personally, Floyd's (extremely serious) priors give lie to the cuddly persona the media has built up around him. This makes me doubt the media's integrity here.
Absolutely, it seems that the media is succeeding in pushing people to pick sides.
Some will say that his past means that he got what's coming.
Others will say that he was a loving family member cut down in his prime.
It all sells newspapers doesn't it?

The man is dead and he's become a money tree for all concerned, lawyers, media, family, politicians, movements etc etc.

None of it is relevant.
It's only the sequence of events, why these events happened and who caused them that resulted in his death that should be important, all else is fog to be blown around to confuse the weak minded.

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Old Mar 31st 2021, 4:56 pm
  #54  
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Floyd's past is irrelevant. All that matters is what happened that day. Floyd's behavior, both before the police were called and later when they were trying to arrest him, is relevant to what may have motivated the police to act in a certain way. If Floyd happened to die in the process of resisting arrest (due to heart disease or drug overdose) and police were following best practices, then we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation. For example, when police tase a suspect and that causes the suspect have a heart attack, the police are not accused of murder. That's because the taser is an accepted use of force. We can debate whether tasers should be used but I can't see that it's fair to give a cop a taser and then be shocked when he uses it. The issue is not that Floyd might have done something wrong, we know Floyd did lots of stuff wrong OBVIOUSLY that's why he was most likely headed to prison. The question in front of the jury is did Chauvin do something wrong? Was the method that Chauvin used illegal? If Chauvin did something wrong, and I believe he did, then the same standard should apply to him ... break the law and you go to jail.
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Old Mar 31st 2021, 5:21 pm
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by Leslie View Post
Floyd's past is irrelevant. All that matters is what happened that day. Floyd's behavior, both before the police were called and later when they were trying to arrest him, is relevant to what may have motivated the police to act in a certain way. If Floyd happened to die in the process of resisting arrest (due to heart disease or drug overdose) and police were following best practices, then we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation. For example, when police tase a suspect and that causes the suspect have a heart attack, the police are not accused of murder. That's because the taser is an accepted use of force. We can debate whether tasers should be used but I can't see that it's fair to give a cop a taser and then be shocked when he uses it. The issue is not that Floyd might have done something wrong, we know Floyd did lots of stuff wrong OBVIOUSLY that's why he was most likely headed to prison. The question in front of the jury is did Chauvin do something wrong? Was the method that Chauvin used illegal? If Chauvin did something wrong, and I believe he did, then the same standard should apply to him ... break the law and you go to jail.

Absolutely this.

Very clearly put.
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Old Mar 31st 2021, 5:26 pm
  #56  
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
Absolutely, it seems that the media is succeeding in pushing people to pick sides.
Some will say that his past means that he got what's coming.
Others will say that he was a loving family member cut down in his prime.
It all sells newspapers doesn't it?
The jury is also being asked to picks sides, whichever side they believe is being more truthful, or better at smearing the other guy's reputation while minimising the damage to their client's reputation.

The man is dead and he's become a money tree for all concerned, lawyers, media, family, politicians, movements etc etc.

None of it is relevant.
It's only the sequence of events, why these events happened and who caused them that resulted in his death that should be important, all else is fog to be blown around to confuse the weak minded.
A man has died unnecessarily in Police restraint. If the method of controlling the suspect was an approved method, there should have been regular checks by another officer to prevent asphyxiation, but the defendent did not allow the other officer to do that. The death was preventable, it would have taken a second or two for Chauving to lift his knee a little and ask Floyd if he was going to be more compliant and get in the car, but that doesn't seem to have happened.

Originally Posted by Leslie View Post
Floyd's past is irrelevant. All that matters is what happened that day. Floyd's behavior, both before the police were called and later when they were trying to arrest him, is relevant to what may have motivated the police to act in a certain way. If Floyd happened to die in the process of resisting arrest (due to heart disease or drug overdose) and police were following best practices, then we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation. For example, when police tase a suspect and that causes the suspect have a heart attack, the police are not accused of murder. That's because the taser is an accepted use of force. We can debate whether tasers should be used but I can't see that it's fair to give a cop a taser and then be shocked when he uses it. The issue is not that Floyd might have done something wrong, we know Floyd did lots of stuff wrong OBVIOUSLY that's why he was most likely headed to prison. The question in front of the jury is did Chauvin do something wrong? Was the method that Chauvin used illegal? If Chauvin did something wrong, and I believe he did, then the same standard should apply to him ... break the law and you go to jail.
Agree with all of this.
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Old Mar 31st 2021, 6:07 pm
  #57  
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post

A man has died unnecessarily in Police restraint. If the method of controlling the suspect was an approved method, there should have been regular checks by another officer to prevent asphyxiation, but the defendent did not allow the other officer to do that. The death was preventable, it would have taken a second or two for Chauving to lift his knee a little and ask Floyd if he was going to be more compliant and get in the car, but that doesn't seem to have happened.
It seems 'procedures' is going to be the meat of this trial, and to that end the extent of Floyd's being "doped up" is going to become pertinent (if indeed he was). One surprising aspect is that when the paramedics arrived, they didn't seem to have much sense of urgency.
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Old Mar 31st 2021, 6:23 pm
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

The testimony of the lady firefighter yesterday was most damning.
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Old Mar 31st 2021, 6:30 pm
  #59  
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
Looks like the defense is going with the officer was trained to use force and that the forced used was reasonable.
"Defense attorney Eric Nelson said that questions about the reasonable use of police force will be a theme of the trial.""He said that the jury will learn about authorized use of force and other Minneapolis police department policies for its officers."
.
He either gets off, or it damns the whole system.
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Old Mar 31st 2021, 6:31 pm
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl View Post
The testimony of the lady firefighter yesterday was most damning.
Yes, definitely.
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