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Derek Chauvin trial

Derek Chauvin trial

Old Mar 30th 2021, 8:45 pm
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Based on CNN description of jurors is interesting.
Spoiler:
Juror 1 male, 20's or 30's, white, chemist, say's he has an analytical mind.

Juror 2 woman, mixed race, 20's or 30's, "was super excited to receive the jury notice"

Juror 3 male, 30's, white, auditor, supports the context of BLM but disagrees with some of the things they have done.

Juror 4 male, black, 30's or 40's, moved to US 14 years ago, has a somewhat negative opinion of Chauvin, police make him feel safe, disagrees with defunding police.

Juror 5 woman, 50's, white, has a somewhat negative impression of Chauvin, believes there is bias against blacks but not everyone in the system is bad, feels empathy for both George Floyd and the officers involved.

Juror 6 ,male, black, 30's, favorable view of BLM, thought Chauvin had not intention to harm anyone, but could set that opinion aside for the case,

Juror 7 white, woman, 50's, somewhat negative impression of Chauvin, wrote that she got the impression Chauvin didn't care about Floyd.

Juror 8 black man 40's, neutral opinion of Chauvin, has favorable view of BLM and blue lives matter.

Juror 9 woman, mixed race, 40's, somewhat negative opinion of Chauvin, but feels safe because of police in her neighborhood.

Juror 10 white, woman, 50's, police make her feel safe, but noted that blacks and minorities are not always treated fairly.

Juror 11 black, woman, 50's or 60's, relative of a Minneapolis Police officer, she said she somewhat agrees black people are not always treated fairly in the criminal justice system.

Juror 12 white, woman, 40's, has a healthy respect for police, somewhat favorable view of BLM

Juror 13 white, woman, 50's, until recently worked at a business damaged in the unrest following Floyds death, somewhat negative view of Chauvin, generally trusts police, feels if people follow directions of police they have nothing to fear.

Juror 14 white woman 20's, neutral view of BLM and blue lives matter, strongly disagrees with defunding police

Juror 15 white male 20's, was excused from the jury before opening statements.



Defense used 14 of their 18 peremptory challenges.

Prosecutors used 8 of their 10 peremptory challenges.

Prosecution used their strikes primarily for white people who expressed support for police, and defense primarily used theirs to strike those expressed negative views of Chauvin and support for BLM.

2 men who had initially been selected were excused after they informed the court the 27 million dollar settlement with Floyd's family would affect their ability to be impartial.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/10/us/de...ors/index.html
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Old Mar 30th 2021, 10:17 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
Based on CNN description of jurors is interesting.
Spoiler:
Juror 1 male, 20's or 30's, white, chemist, say's he has an analytical mind.

Juror 2 woman, mixed race, 20's or 30's, "was super excited to receive the jury notice"

Juror 3 male, 30's, white, auditor, supports the context of BLM but disagrees with some of the things they have done.

Juror 4 male, black, 30's or 40's, moved to US 14 years ago, has a somewhat negative opinion of Chauvin, police make him feel safe, disagrees with defunding police.

Juror 5 woman, 50's, white, has a somewhat negative impression of Chauvin, believes there is bias against blacks but not everyone in the system is bad, feels empathy for both George Floyd and the officers involved.

Juror 6 ,male, black, 30's, favorable view of BLM, thought Chauvin had not intention to harm anyone, but could set that opinion aside for the case,

Juror 7 white, woman, 50's, somewhat negative impression of Chauvin, wrote that she got the impression Chauvin didn't care about Floyd.

Juror 8 black man 40's, neutral opinion of Chauvin, has favorable view of BLM and blue lives matter.

Juror 9 woman, mixed race, 40's, somewhat negative opinion of Chauvin, but feels safe because of police in her neighborhood.

Juror 10 white, woman, 50's, police make her feel safe, but noted that blacks and minorities are not always treated fairly.

Juror 11 black, woman, 50's or 60's, relative of a Minneapolis Police officer, she said she somewhat agrees black people are not always treated fairly in the criminal justice system.

Juror 12 white, woman, 40's, has a healthy respect for police, somewhat favorable view of BLM

Juror 13 white, woman, 50's, until recently worked at a business damaged in the unrest following Floyds death, somewhat negative view of Chauvin, generally trusts police, feels if people follow directions of police they have nothing to fear.

Juror 14 white woman 20's, neutral view of BLM and blue lives matter, strongly disagrees with defunding police

Juror 15 white male 20's, was excused from the jury before opening statements.





Defense used 14 of their 18 peremptory challenges.

Prosecutors used 8 of their 10 peremptory challenges.

Prosecution used their strikes primarily for white people who expressed support for police, and defense primarily used theirs to strike those expressed negative views of Chauvin and support for BLM.

2 men who had initially been selected were excused after they informed the court the 27 million dollar settlement with Floyd's family would affect their ability to be impartial.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/10/us/de...ors/index.html
Not sure how much the jury composition matters in this trial. There is so much overwhelming video evidence that it was mishandled, it's just a question of whether he gets convicted on Murder 2 or not. Murder 3 seems inevitable given his actions. Today's witness Daniel Williams can be heard constantly pleading/arguing with Chauvin to stop the choking and the minor witnesses all seemed say that he was applying more pressure as the ordeal progressed.
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Old Mar 30th 2021, 10:42 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl View Post
No it is not. I was just stating that the cops had tried to get him in the back of the car but he resisted. Sad because had he complied, he most probably would not have died that day.
Maybe he's had previously bad experiences in the back of Police cars? I don't know, but I've seen enough people arrested to know that not everyone is compliant in being put into the back of the wagon.

How lucky we are that there's so much video available... How many other times have Police 'accidently' overzealously restrained someone where there were no cameras or witnesses.

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Not sure how much the jury composition matters in this trial. There is so much overwhelming video evidence that it was mishandled, it's just a question of whether he gets convicted on Murder 2 or not. Murder 3 seems inevitable given his actions. Today's witness Daniel Williams can be heard constantly pleading/arguing with Chauvin to stop the choking and the minor witnesses all seemed say that he was applying more pressure as the ordeal progressed.
It'll matter, the prosecution will be playing to the unconscious bias of the black jurors, and the defence will be doing the same with the white jurors...
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Old Mar 31st 2021, 12:30 am
  #34  
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

While the police certainly acted like douchebag, power-tripping stormtroopers, Floyd also clearly deserved to be arrested and violently resisted that arrest. That is hard to defend in court. Floyd seems to have died due to complex combination of the struggle with police (or police brutality, depending on interpretation), pre-existing heart conditions and the fact that he quite clearly swallowed a large amount of meth and fentanyl to avoid being caught with drugs. Floyd also had a lengthy rap sheet which included some truly despicable things, which may be irrelevant to this case but is almost certainly going to be brought up in court. This is hardly an open-and-shut case for the prosecution. I foresee trouble ahead.
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Old Mar 31st 2021, 12:58 am
  #35  
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
It'll matter, the prosecution will be playing to the unconscious bias of the black jurors, and the defence will be doing the same with the white jurors...
Normally I'd agree, but there's just way too much video evidence. Bias arises when people have to make educated guesses about what happened, in this case it's right in front of them. I don't think it's a racial issue here, as desperate as certain groups are intent on making it one.
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Old Mar 31st 2021, 1:02 am
  #36  
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
While the police certainly acted like douchebag, power-tripping stormtroopers, Floyd also clearly deserved to be arrested and violently resisted that arrest. That is hard to defend in court. Floyd seems to have died due to complex combination of the struggle with police (or police brutality, depending on interpretation), pre-existing heart conditions and the fact that he quite clearly swallowed a large amount of meth and fentanyl to avoid being caught with drugs. Floyd also had a lengthy rap sheet which included some truly despicable things, which may be irrelevant to this case but is almost certainly going to be brought up in court. This is hardly an open-and-shut case for the prosecution. I foresee trouble ahead.
Why did he deserve to be arressted? From what I've seen that isn't entirely evident. If anything racial bias does seem to have occurred at the initial arrest stage.

Interestingly, Chauvin is alsosaid have a lengthy rap sheet on complaints of brutality, and his prior record is something that is not admissable as evidence.

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Old Mar 31st 2021, 4:50 am
  #37  
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
While the police certainly acted like douchebag, power-tripping stormtroopers, Floyd also clearly deserved to be arrested and violently resisted that arrest. That is hard to defend in court. Floyd seems to have died due to complex combination of the struggle with police (or police brutality, depending on interpretation), pre-existing heart conditions and the fact that he quite clearly swallowed a large amount of meth and fentanyl to avoid being caught with drugs. Floyd also had a lengthy rap sheet which included some truly despicable things, which may be irrelevant to this case but is almost certainly going to be brought up in court. This is hardly an open-and-shut case for the prosecution. I foresee trouble ahead.
Floyd was the victim. What has his past got to do with it?
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Old Mar 31st 2021, 8:00 am
  #38  
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Not sure how much the jury composition matters in this trial. There is so much overwhelming video evidence that it was mishandled
What matters is how much the US has changed since March 3, 1991.
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Old Mar 31st 2021, 9:58 am
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by Watchpost View Post
What matters is how much the US has changed since March 3, 1991.
That's a fair comment. I didn't really follow the King trial, there was that grainy footage of him being beaten, but do you happen to remember why the jury didn't convict ?
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Old Mar 31st 2021, 10:45 am
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
That's a fair comment. I didn't really follow the King trial, there was that grainy footage of him being beaten, but do you happen to remember why the jury didn't convict ?

Juries don't have to explain themselves, but one juror did, later.

"[The beating tape] didn't look good. It looked bad. But it was, as far as I was concerned, it wasn't against the law. And then I couldn't convict 'em because to me they were doing what they were supposed to do. And, well, the majority of us felt the same way at the trial."

https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment...ry?id=46712060

As did this one:

"
The juror noted that King was chased at high speed by police for more than 8 miles before he was pulled over and didn't cooperate with officers, who testified that they were afraid of King. "He refused to get out of the car," another juror told The Los Angeles Times. "His two companions got out of the car and complied with all the orders and he just continued to fight. "So the Police Department had no alternative. He was obviously a dangerous person. Mr. King was controlling the whole show with his actions."

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...icle-1.2201822

So "he made them do it". Follow orders, or everything else is justifiable.
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Old Mar 31st 2021, 10:52 am
  #41  
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Why did he deserve to be arrested? From what I've seen that isn't entirely evident. If anything racial bias does seem to have occurred at the initial arrest stage.
Apparently, a convenience store clerk called 911 because he thought Floyd was trying to pay with a counterfeit $20 bill.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/31/u...stigation.html

Interestingly, Chauvin is also said to have a lengthy rap sheet on complaints of brutality, and his prior record is something that is not admissable as evidence.
Yeah, the defence will paint this as a one-off accidental mistake by a nice Police officer against a violent, drugged-up habitual criminal who refused to go quietly.

Last edited by DaveLovesDee; Mar 31st 2021 at 10:57 am.
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Old Mar 31st 2021, 11:28 am
  #42  
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
That's a fair comment. I didn't really follow the King trial, there was that grainy footage of him being beaten, but do you happen to remember why the jury didn't convict ?
I had only just bought and moved into a new home, had no TV, didn't get a daily paper and there was no Internet - I didn't really follow the King trial and aftermath either.

There's a lot of info on Wikipedia though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_King

The big takeaway for me from the Wikipedia article is that even thirty years ago, the authorities at a higher level didn't play this down. The cops were charged by the Los Angeles County District Attorney. Subsequently there was a second trial launched by the United States Department of Justice.

Yet the feeling among a large part of the population seems to have been that if you don't "comply" with the cops, anything goes. And in the US, with jury trials, that sentiment may be (and evidently was) held by the people tasked with administering justice.

I tend to think that the US justice system is lagging public opinion, but maybe it's just as much the other way around.

And another thing: the only reason the Rodney King incident became an historical event (including the LA riots, in which 63(!) people died) is because purely coincidentally, a plumbing salesman and hobbyist videographer happened to be watching from across the street. And even then, only because - which I find quite staggering - when he offered the cops the tape, they weren't even interested! Seriously, not only did they consider beating King half to death a non-issue, they didn't even see any need to collect the tape, and take control of the narrative, perhaps making the tape disappear.
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Old Mar 31st 2021, 12:18 pm
  #43  
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Juries don't have to explain themselves, but one juror did, later.

"[The beating tape] didn't look good. It looked bad. But it was, as far as I was concerned, it wasn't against the law. And then I couldn't convict 'em because to me they were doing what they were supposed to do. And, well, the majority of us felt the same way at the trial."

https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment...ry?id=46712060

As did this one:

"
The juror noted that King was chased at high speed by police for more than 8 miles before he was pulled over and didn't cooperate with officers, who testified that they were afraid of King. "He refused to get out of the car," another juror told The Los Angeles Times. "His two companions got out of the car and complied with all the orders and he just continued to fight. "So the Police Department had no alternative. He was obviously a dangerous person. Mr. King was controlling the whole show with his actions."

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...icle-1.2201822

So "he made them do it". Follow orders, or everything else is justifiable.
Interesting. Public acceptance of police beating does seem to have shifted in the past 30 years.
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Old Mar 31st 2021, 12:21 pm
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Interesting. Public acceptance of police beating does seem to have shifted in the past 30 years.
Helped by easier access to video cameras and cell phone cameras.... It's harder to cover things up when the public films it.

It's easy to dismiss if the Police can say he deserved it because he was resisting arrest, but once it's shown that actually, no, it wasn't deserved, public opinion changes.
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Old Mar 31st 2021, 12:22 pm
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Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Apparently, a convenience store clerk called 911 because he thought Floyd was trying to pay with a counterfeit $20 bill.

.
That's true. And I guess it's from the get go Floyd was not "cooperating" with the officer in charge. On the bodycam footage it's interesting to see how immediately compliant and submissive his passenger (another black male) becomes when questioned by the officer. So I guess as a non-compliant suspect there were grounds to arrest him. A tragedy of circumstances.
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