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-   -   Deprivation and poverty... (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/deprivation-poverty-935937/)

Lion in Winter Dec 9th 2020 1:46 am

re: Deprivation and poverty...
 
Covid isn't helping.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...s-into-poverty

Jsmth321 Dec 9th 2020 2:35 am

re: Deprivation and poverty...
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12944274)


I have a feeling this is going to be repeated in many western countries to some extent.

Heck here in Canada homeless are living in such poverty trench fever is showing up in homeless communities.

This doctor sums it up well.

""It's a disease associated with wartime conditions and refugee camps and it's found in Canada. If we didn't have this degree of poverty in Canada, we wouldn't have this disease," he said."

It really sucks and I don't think it's getting better any-time soon, if anything some western countries seem to be worse off each year.

Sometimes I think some countries are on the verge of collapse, wages low, high cost of living, basic needs going up so quickly its impossible to catch up, high debt loads for consumers etc,

Boiler Dec 9th 2020 3:40 am

re: Deprivation and poverty...
 
Logical it would get worse with globalization.

dave_j Dec 9th 2020 6:35 am

re: Deprivation and poverty...
 

Originally Posted by Boiler (Post 12944284)
Logical it would get worse with globalization.

And it did.....

Yes Sir, can I help?
I Need a widget? I'd like a local one.
Oh, you'd like a local one? Well there aren't any.
Why's that then?
Well the last widget you bought came from China.
Didn't you have a local one last time I came in?
I did but it cost more than the Chinese one so you bought that instead.
Can you get me a local one?
Sorry they don't make them anymore.
But wasn't there a factory making them down the road?
There was, and the man you passed outside begging for food used to work there.



Jsmth321 Dec 9th 2020 6:48 am

re: Deprivation and poverty...
 
Reminds me of my sisters old job.

She worked in the admin office so stayed employed. They were located along the border with Mexico in San Diego area, the company decided to lay off the production staff, and moved production across the border, you could literally see the new production facility from her office but it was on the Mexico side of the border now. They paid $20-$25 US$ per hour + benefits to US workers, the Mexico workers were paid in pesos but was around $5 or $6 US per hour at the time.

I am guilty of the above though as a consumer, when I was working at the airport, I looked into buying work boots from a local Vancouver company, who manufactures them in Canada still, but at $600+ a pair, I simply could not afford it, so I went to Marks and bought a pair for $120, if I had the wage to support local makers of boots, I would have but I wasn't getting paid enough to pay $600 for a pair of boots, I wasn't even making $600 in a week before taxes at that time yet, so that is part of the problem too.




Originally Posted by dave_j (Post 12944333)
And it did.....

Yes Sir, can I help?
I Need a widget? I'd like a local one.
Oh, you'd like a local one? Well there aren't any.
Why's that then?
Well the last widget you bought came from China.
Didn't you have a local one last time I came in?
I did but it cost more than the Chinese one so you bought that instead.
Can you get me a local one?
Sorry they don't make them anymore.
But wasn't there a factory making them down the road?
There was, and the man you passed outside begging for food used to work there.


KJMW Dec 9th 2020 8:23 am

re: Deprivation and poverty...
 

Originally Posted by dave_j (Post 12944333)
And it did.....

Yes Sir, can I help?
I Need a widget? I'd like a local one.
Oh, you'd like a local one? Well there aren't any.
Why's that then?
Well the last widget you bought came from China.
Didn't you have a local one last time I came in?
I did but it cost more than the Chinese one so you bought that instead.
Can you get me a local one?
Sorry they don't make them anymore.
But wasn't there a factory making them down the road?
There was, and the man you passed outside begging for food used to work there.

So, we have only ourselves to blame. Everyone wants thing cheap. Not only do we want things cheap but also a high standard of living which means high wages etc. Want the cake and eat it springs to mind!!!

Scamp Dec 9th 2020 8:31 am

re: Deprivation and poverty...
 

Originally Posted by dave_j (Post 12944333)
And it did.....

Yes Sir, can I help?
I Need a widget? I'd like a local one.
Oh, you'd like a local one? Well there aren't any.
Why's that then?
Well the last widget you bought came from China.
Didn't you have a local one last time I came in?
I did but it cost more than the Chinese one so you bought that instead.
Can you get me a local one?
Sorry they don't make them anymore.
But wasn't there a factory making them down the road?
There was, and the man you passed outside begging for food used to work there.

Went to a local market thing here, it's all local produce and local made goods / crafts / arts etc.

Picked up a pretty little baby sized dress for the new niece. They wanted 140dhs AFTER 30% discount for the National Day weekend. So it was 200dhs originally - that's 40 GBP / 55 USD.
Put it back down and politely moved on.
Found, on the Next.ae website a similar cute little cotton dress. Lovely. 6 quid - translated to sub 30dhs out here.

I could have bought 4 dresses and had change.

Sometimes I think the economies of scale are unfair, sometimes I see the labour intensive nature of it all, sometimes I think it's great to support local.....but sometimes, just sometimes I think people take the ****ing piss.

Assanah Dec 9th 2020 8:37 am

re: Deprivation and poverty...
 

Originally Posted by KJMW (Post 12944365)
So, we have only ourselves to blame. Everyone wants thing cheap. Not only do we want things cheap but also a high standard of living which means high wages etc. Want the cake and eat it springs to mind!!!

Considering that the UK was one of the major nations that forced globalization on half the planet by violence you are actually spot on. All those nations whose harbor the British bombed to open them for their trade ships are now in your harbours. Luckily for you not using violence but goods. So now it's time to make space for the rest of the world to sit at the table too and to share. Considering the number of people rising in wealth that will probably mean that you don't even have the cake .. maybe a smallish piece?

KJMW Dec 9th 2020 8:39 am

re: Deprivation and poverty...
 

Originally Posted by Assanah (Post 12944369)
Considering that the UK was one of the major nations that forced globalization on half the planet by violence you are actually spot on. All those nations whose harbor the British bombed to open them for their trade ships are now in your harbours. Luckily for you not using violence but goods. So now it's time to make space for the rest of the world to sit at the table too and to share. Considering the number of people rising in wealth that will probably mean that you don't even have the cake .. maybe a smallish piece?

Ah yes, of course I forgot. It's Britains fault. Silly me for not seeing it!!

DXBtoDOH Dec 9th 2020 1:32 pm

re: Deprivation and poverty...
 
As someone who's travelled widely and extensively in developing regions of the world, there is nothing comparable to the poverty you find in large swathes of Africa or Asia or India in the western nations. The poverty you find in Canada or Britain or the US is a peculiar breed of poverty and one that is quite often self-imposed. The impoverished are not starving to death nor malnourished beyond personal dietary choices. Food is incredibly cheap, there are food pantries and free soup kitchens everywhere. Progressives may shout that we gotta do something, but what exactly can we really do? The poverty one sees in developed countries is only a poverty when measured against the standard of living enjoyed by the common masses. And it's a poverty that is very closely aligned with substantial mental health problems and substance abuse problems, which compounds the situation. It's why even in progressive leaning nations like Canada they still struggle to 'eradicate' poverty.

DXBtoDOH Dec 9th 2020 1:34 pm

re: Deprivation and poverty...
 

Originally Posted by Assanah (Post 12944369)
Considering that the UK was one of the major nations that forced globalization on half the planet by violence you are actually spot on. All those nations whose harbor the British bombed to open them for their trade ships are now in your harbours. Luckily for you not using violence but goods. So now it's time to make space for the rest of the world to sit at the table too and to share. Considering the number of people rising in wealth that will probably mean that you don't even have the cake .. maybe a smallish piece?

The same arriviste nations that brutally oppress enormous swathes of their populations to make their elite even richer, eh?

robin1234 Dec 9th 2020 1:50 pm

re: Deprivation and poverty...
 

Originally Posted by DXBtoDOH (Post 12944467)
The same arriviste nations that brutally oppress enormous swathes of their populations to make their elite even richer, eh?

Hey, luxury new-build flats in London and New York are expensive. Then there’s the money laundering fees to take care of.

KJMW Dec 9th 2020 2:00 pm

re: Deprivation and poverty...
 

Originally Posted by DXBtoDOH (Post 12944465)
As someone who's travelled widely and extensively in developing regions of the world, there is nothing comparable to the poverty you find in large swathes of Africa or Asia or India in the western nations. The poverty you find in Canada or Britain or the US is a peculiar breed of poverty and one that is quite often self-imposed. The impoverished are not starving to death nor malnourished beyond personal dietary choices. Food is incredibly cheap, there are food pantries and free soup kitchens everywhere. Progressives may shout that we gotta do something, but what exactly can we really do? The poverty one sees in developed countries is only a poverty when measured against the standard of living enjoyed by the common masses. And it's a poverty that is very closely aligned with substantial mental health problems and substance abuse problems, which compounds the situation. It's why even in progressive leaning nations like Canada they still struggle to 'eradicate' poverty.

Good grief man, wash your mouth out!!! You won't be popular here I can tell you!!!! The name of the game is usually blame government!!!

Bipat Dec 9th 2020 3:10 pm

re: Deprivation and poverty...
 

Originally Posted by DXBtoDOH (Post 12944465)
As someone who's travelled widely and extensively in developing regions of the world, there is nothing comparable to the poverty you find in large swathes of Africa or Asia or India in the western nations. The poverty you find in Canada or Britain or the US is a peculiar breed of poverty and one that is quite often self-imposed. The impoverished are not starving to death nor malnourished beyond personal dietary choices. Food is incredibly cheap, there are food pantries and free soup kitchens everywhere. Progressives may shout that we gotta do something, but what exactly can we really do? The poverty one sees in developed countries is only a poverty when measured against the standard of living enjoyed by the common masses. And it's a poverty that is very closely aligned with substantial mental health problems and substance abuse problems, which compounds the situation. It's why even in progressive leaning nations like Canada they still struggle to 'eradicate' poverty.

Rather a 'generalisation'. I can only answer for one of your examples of 'developing' regions. The poverty in India has been gradually decreasing since independence and rapidly in the last 10 years or so.
Where as that in UK it has increased for a variety of reasons.
From what I read regarding USA there is poverty and certainly the poverty regarding medical treatment is greater than that in India.

Jsmth321 Dec 9th 2020 5:31 pm

re: Deprivation and poverty...
 

Originally Posted by robin1234 (Post 12944472)
Hey, luxury new-build flats in London and New York are expensive. Then there’s the money laundering fees to take care of.


Canadian casinos take very modest cuts, launder money through the casinos, buy Canadian real estate, sell Canadian real estate, send clean money to countries who have tougher money laundering laws, and now buy your London or NY luxury building with nice clean Canadian real estate money. :sarcasm:

But it is a major issue in BC and simplistic version of what happens.




I would be very surprised if the homeless in Canada are properly nourished, sure some make the choice to be homeless but others are simply so mentally ill they can't care for themselves, let alone eat properly and stay properly nourished. It's a failure of society really. Native Reserves can also be lacking proper foods and the cost of healthy foods is very expensive especially in the northern regions of Canada.


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