Go Back  British Expats > General > Take it Outside!
Reload this Page >

Commonwealth v EU

Commonwealth v EU

Old Oct 10th 2019, 3:24 pm
  #31  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,775
Bipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Commonwealth v EU

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Tariff-free at the moment. But WTO tariffs will be £221 per tonne. https://www.bigissue.com/latest/no-d...eddar-deficit/

1) So, back to Commonwealth FoM. The British Nationality Act made them all British citizens, all 850 million of them. So that means it wasn't Commonwealth FoM but Brits exercising their right to enter the UK under UK law. The 1962 Act ended their right to automatically be classed as British citizens, but still didn't give an automatic right of free movement, so still no Commonwealth FoM. So where has this Commonwealth FoM you speak of come from?

2) Commonwealth nationals still have the right to enter the UK as visitors for up to 6 months in any 12-month period without needing a visit visa (unless they're married to a Brit, who are heavily scrutinised by immigration on arrival as potential over-stayers if they don't have a Spouse visa.

The 1949 Act made them Citizens of the United Kingdom and Colonies. Individual countries could legislate for their own citizenship but retain CUKC if they wished. So therefore they could have a 'foreign' passport and still have FOM into the UK.

You are 'splitting hairs'----The country I know--- they were Indian with Indian passports, after independence. Also as citizens of the Commonwealth---they had FOM into the UK until 1962.

1962 ended the right of free movement.

2) They don't have that right !!!!! I don't know about all Commonwealth countries, certainly those from India have to have a visitor visa!!!! They still have to be sponsored even for a visitor visa, although recently, to my relief, (can't remember which year) the sponsorship doesn't now have to be signed by a notary public.


To return to cheddar cheese-----Most of the imported dairy products are from Ireland but added together the amount from several other EU countries is almost equal.
Bipat is offline  
Old Oct 10th 2019, 3:34 pm
  #32  
Jigsaw
 
DaveLovesDee's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Abertawe, Cymru, Y Deyrnas Unedig, Undeb Ewropeaidd
Posts: 19,117
DaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Commonwealth v EU

Originally Posted by BritInParis View Post
Not sure there’s a single correct fact in that entire post, Dave. Want to give it another go?
I disagree.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis...ality_Act_1948

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/bre...y-citizenship/

The fluidity of British citizenship over time

Until the passing of the 1948 British Nationality Act (BNA), there had been no formal designation of citizenship within Britain or the British Empire at large. Instead, there was a general understanding that all those who were subject to British rule were British subjects. This had had few political consequences for those living in Britain at the height of empire. But during the period of decolonisation, and the voluntary movement of people to the metropole, this changed.

British citizenship, together with the right to live and work in Britain, was afforded to in excess of 850 million people in 1948.

The BNA was passed in light of India gaining her independence in 1947 and the white settler dominion colonies of Canada, New Zealand, and Australia set to become fully independent in 1948. As Britain was still an imperial state, despite these losses, the form of citizenship outlined in the BNA was shared across the UK, its colonies, its former colonies, and its dominion territories. These were ‘Citizen of the UK and its Colonies’ and ‘Commonwealth Citizen’ (all those from the former colonies and dominions such as India, Canada, Australia etc. were eligible); there was no separate or distinct category of citizenship for people in Britain. At the point of setting out the BNA in 1948, then, British citizenship, together with the right to live and work in Britain, was afforded to in excess of 850 million people (albeit within the white dominion whites-only immigration policies excluded fellow British subjects).
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/all-c...e-visa-johnson

Commonwealth Citizens are about to benefit from the recent UK free-visa endorsement.

With Mrs Theresa May as the new British Prime Minister, UK has announced a visa-free entry for all commonwealth citizens.
As for the potential overstaying assumption by UK immigration, it happened to my wife and has been documented a number of times. But here's another https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9097531.html
DaveLovesDee is offline  
Old Oct 10th 2019, 3:35 pm
  #33  
Jigsaw
 
DaveLovesDee's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Abertawe, Cymru, Y Deyrnas Unedig, Undeb Ewropeaidd
Posts: 19,117
DaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Commonwealth v EU

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
The 1949 Act made them Citizens of the United Kingdom and Colonies. Individual countries could legislate for their own citizenship but retain CUKC if they wished. So therefore they could have a 'foreign' passport and still have FOM into the UK.

You are 'splitting hairs'----The country I know--- they were Indian with Indian passports, after independence. Also as citizens of the Commonwealth---they had FOM into the UK until 1962.

1962 ended the right of free movement.

2) They don't have that right !!!!! I don't know about all Commonwealth countries, certainly those from India have to have a visitor visa!!!! They still have to be sponsored even for a visitor visa, although recently, to my relief, (can't remember which year) the sponsorship doesn't now have to be signed by a notary public.


To return to cheddar cheese-----Most of the imported dairy products are from Ireland but added together the amount from several other EU countries is almost equal.
I've posted links to support my statements.
DaveLovesDee is offline  
Old Oct 10th 2019, 3:57 pm
  #34  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,775
Bipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Commonwealth v EU

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
I've posted links to support my statements.
DLD ---your links are not accurate.

Yes some Commonwealth countries were allowed visa free visits but not all. There were also some changes to student visas but not for all!! In fact Indian authorities reacted negatively at the time.

The rights to "live and work in Britain"----(not sure what the words 'whites-only' meant, Indians were not 'white'!) Surely you accept that was FOM???
Also they were not excluded if they also held their own independent country nationality and passports.

Bipat is offline  
Old Oct 10th 2019, 5:11 pm
  #35  
Jigsaw
 
DaveLovesDee's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Abertawe, Cymru, Y Deyrnas Unedig, Undeb Ewropeaidd
Posts: 19,117
DaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Commonwealth v EU

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
DLD ---your links are not accurate.

Yes some Commonwealth countries were allowed visa free visits but not all. There were also some changes to student visas but not for all!! In fact Indian authorities reacted negatively at the time.

The rights to "live and work in Britain"----(not sure what the words 'whites-only' meant, Indians were not 'white'!) Surely you accept that was FOM???
Also they were not excluded if they also held their own independent country nationality and passports.
If my links are inaccurate, you need to contact the authors or publishers to correct them.

List of visa-free nationals - UK

How the Indian government reacts to UK visa changes is irrelevant.

OK, so there appears to be some Commonwealth countries who aren't visa-free to the UK. Yet it seems to be a common misconception. I apologise for my error.

It's free movement in the same sense of other British citizens returning to the UK had FoM. Being British, it's my right to enter the UK without restriction in the same way any other British citizen does. That's what the Commonwealth nationals did when made British citizens under the BNA. As for what 'whites-only' means, surely you're not ignorant of the attitudes of the day. Brits back then were happy when their new neighbour was a white Canadian or Australian/New Zealander, not so much if they were from the Caribbean or the Indian sub-continent. It still happens, though less overtly.
DaveLovesDee is offline  
Old Oct 10th 2019, 6:45 pm
  #36  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,775
Bipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Commonwealth v EU

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
1) If my links are inaccurate, you need to contact the authors or publishers to correct them.

List of visa-free nationals - UK

How the Indian government reacts to UK visa changes is irrelevant.

1) OK, so there appears to be some Commonwealth countries who aren't visa-free to the UK. Yet it seems to be a common misconception. I apologise for my error.

2) It's free movement in the same sense of other British citizens returning to the UK had FoM. Being British, it's my right to enter the UK without restriction in the same way any other British citizen does. That's what the Commonwealth nationals did when made British citizens under the BNA. As for what 'whites-only' means, surely you're not ignorant of the attitudes of the day. Brits back then were happy when their new neighbour was a white Canadian or Australian/New Zealander, not so much if they were from the Caribbean or the Indian sub-continent. It still happens, though less overtly.
1) Why would I complain about the authors of your link! I would not have read it but for you.
I certainly know that for Indian people, a visitor visa is necessary. In fact when in UK we have less visitors nowadays because a Schengen Visa is easier to get. Even a USA is easier.
(The sponsor form when they do come is a nuisance but travel agents in India have a standard form which they send to sign, can now do it on-line.)

2) The 'whites' remark was in your link about freedom to settle in UK. Obviously I know it to be untrue; OH came by ship in 1960---the Strathmore, to take exams. The passengers all had Indian passports. They docked at Lisbon and were taken around there by bus sight-seeing---were not allowed to get out of the bus because of the difficulty with Portugal over Goa State. Then on to the UK, stopping at various ports including south of France! (Better than air travel!!)

Bipat is offline  
Old Oct 10th 2019, 6:57 pm
  #37  
F.orum Ape
Thread Starter
 
Shard's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 18,912
Shard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Commonwealth v EU

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
2) The 'whites' remark was in your link about freedom to settle in UK. Obviously I know it to be untrue; OH came by ship in 1960---the Strathmore, to take exams. The passengers all had Indian passports. They docked at Lisbon and were taken around there by bus sight-seeing---were not allowed to get out of the bus because of the difficulty with Portugal over Goa State. Then on to the UK, stopping at various ports including south of France! (Better than air travel!!)
Luckily he wasn't 3 years younger. It does sound like a fantastic voyage.
Shard is online now  
Old Oct 10th 2019, 7:04 pm
  #38  
Who - me?
 
Red Eric's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Arcos de Valdevez "Onde Portugal se fez"
Posts: 10,901
Red Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Commonwealth v EU

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
2) The 'whites' remark was in your link about freedom to settle in UK. Obviously I know it to be untrue; OH came by ship in 1960---the Strathmore, to take exams. The passengers all had Indian passports. They docked at Lisbon and were taken around there by bus sight-seeing---were not allowed to get out of the bus because of the difficulty with Portugal over Goa State. Then on to the UK, stopping at various ports including south of France! (Better than air travel!!)
I think you may have misunderstood what was said if it's this you're commenting on :
At the point of setting out the BNA in 1948, then, British citizenship, together with the right to live and work in Britain, was afforded to in excess of 850 million people (albeit within the white dominion whites-only immigration policies excluded fellow British subjects).
… which is saying that the UK had an open to all immigration policy not followed in (all?) the Dominions, which excluded non-whites when it came to immigration to their territories.
Red Eric is offline  
Old Oct 11th 2019, 9:06 am
  #39  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,775
Bipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Commonwealth v EU

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Luckily he wasn't 3 years younger. It does sound like a fantastic voyage.
Being younger would not have made any difference in the 60s, 70, 80s as UK had need of particular skills and qualifications, entry was no problem for those (He had planned to go straight back after exam but was offered jobs, in Yorkshire first of all and enjoyed it there!! )

Voyage was great apparently and weather good.(There was a TV programme in UK about those that came in the 1950s on the liner Batory).

Bipat is offline  
Old Oct 11th 2019, 9:09 am
  #40  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,775
Bipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Commonwealth v EU

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
I think you may have misunderstood what was said if it's this you're commenting on :

… which is saying that the UK had an open to all immigration policy not followed in (all?) the Dominions, which excluded non-whites when it came to immigration to their territories.
Yes, thankyou, read it quickly --didn't really know what it meant--just knew that it didn't apply to UK!!!
Bipat is offline  
Old Oct 18th 2019, 5:42 pm
  #41  
F.orum Ape
Thread Starter
 
Shard's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 18,912
Shard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Commonwealth v EU

Here you go Bipat, you have another "Commonwealth advocate" arguing that we have an alternative to the EU. It was from LBC earlier today. I can't say that I am any more convinced.

Shard is online now  
Old Oct 18th 2019, 6:18 pm
  #42  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 643
Thairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Commonwealth v EU

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Who knows? So much imported stuff nowadays!
From the EU. Enjoy while we sell to UK.
Thairetired2016 is offline  
Old Oct 18th 2019, 7:09 pm
  #43  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,775
Bipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Commonwealth v EU

Originally Posted by Thairetired2016 View Post
From the EU. Enjoy while we sell to UK.
Where would you sell your stuff otherwise----have another 'butter mountain'---'milk lake'?
Bipat is offline  
Old Oct 18th 2019, 7:17 pm
  #44  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,775
Bipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Commonwealth v EU

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Here you go Bipat, you have another "Commonwealth advocate" arguing that we have an alternative to the EU. It was from LBC earlier today. I can't say that I am any more convinced.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsTTWODohZ4
Rather an incoherent tape!!! No one is saying that the Commonwealth is going to be a 'trading block'. The counties do have some FTDs with each other and elsewhere and in in other trading blocks and certainly India will be an important aim for a UK FTD (As it has been for the EU---presume they will keep trying!!)

I gave it as an example as an association of countries with past shared history and present day very good relationships whether trade/migration/sport/ education/ etc etc. without the need for compulsion. Any member can leave any time!
Bipat is offline  
Old Oct 18th 2019, 8:19 pm
  #45  
F.orum Ape
Thread Starter
 
Shard's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 18,912
Shard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Commonwealth v EU

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Rather an incoherent tape!!! No one is saying that the Commonwealth is going to be a 'trading block'. The counties do have some FTDs with each other and elsewhere and in in other trading blocks and certainly India will be an important aim for a UK FTD (As it has been for the EU---presume they will keep trying!!)

I gave it as an example as an association of countries with past shared history and present day very good relationships whether trade/migration/sport/ education/ etc etc. without the need for compulsion. Any member can leave any time!
Ok. Thanks for the clarification.
Shard is online now  

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.