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Re: Commonwealth v EU
Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee
(Post 12746647)
Tariff-free at the moment. But WTO tariffs will be £221 per tonne. https://www.bigissue.com/latest/no-d...eddar-deficit/
1) So, back to Commonwealth FoM. The British Nationality Act made them all British citizens, all 850 million of them. So that means it wasn't Commonwealth FoM but Brits exercising their right to enter the UK under UK law. The 1962 Act ended their right to automatically be classed as British citizens, but still didn't give an automatic right of free movement, so still no Commonwealth FoM. So where has this Commonwealth FoM you speak of come from? 2) Commonwealth nationals still have the right to enter the UK as visitors for up to 6 months in any 12-month period without needing a visit visa (unless they're married to a Brit, who are heavily scrutinised by immigration on arrival as potential over-stayers if they don't have a Spouse visa. The 1949 Act made them Citizens of the United Kingdom and Colonies. Individual countries could legislate for their own citizenship but retain CUKC if they wished. So therefore they could have a 'foreign' passport and still have FOM into the UK. You are 'splitting hairs'----The country I know--- they were Indian with Indian passports, after independence. Also as citizens of the Commonwealth---they had FOM into the UK until 1962. 1962 ended the right of free movement. 2) They don't have that right !!!!! I don't know about all Commonwealth countries, certainly those from India have to have a visitor visa!!!! They still have to be sponsored even for a visitor visa, although recently, to my relief, (can't remember which year) the sponsorship doesn't now have to be signed by a notary public. To return to cheddar cheese-----Most of the imported dairy products are from Ireland but added together the amount from several other EU countries is almost equal. |
Re: Commonwealth v EU
Originally Posted by BritInParis
(Post 12746653)
Not sure there’s a single correct fact in that entire post, Dave. Want to give it another go?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis...ality_Act_1948 https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/bre...y-citizenship/ The fluidity of British citizenship over time Until the passing of the 1948 British Nationality Act (BNA), there had been no formal designation of citizenship within Britain or the British Empire at large. Instead, there was a general understanding that all those who were subject to British rule were British subjects. This had had few political consequences for those living in Britain at the height of empire. But during the period of decolonisation, and the voluntary movement of people to the metropole, this changed. British citizenship, together with the right to live and work in Britain, was afforded to in excess of 850 million people in 1948. The BNA was passed in light of India gaining her independence in 1947 and the white settler dominion colonies of Canada, New Zealand, and Australia set to become fully independent in 1948. As Britain was still an imperial state, despite these losses, the form of citizenship outlined in the BNA was shared across the UK, its colonies, its former colonies, and its dominion territories. These were ‘Citizen of the UK and its Colonies’ and ‘Commonwealth Citizen’ (all those from the former colonies and dominions such as India, Canada, Australia etc. were eligible); there was no separate or distinct category of citizenship for people in Britain. At the point of setting out the BNA in 1948, then, British citizenship, together with the right to live and work in Britain, was afforded to in excess of 850 million people (albeit within the white dominion whites-only immigration policies excluded fellow British subjects). Commonwealth Citizens are about to benefit from the recent UK free-visa endorsement. With Mrs Theresa May as the new British Prime Minister, UK has announced a visa-free entry for all commonwealth citizens. |
Re: Commonwealth v EU
Originally Posted by Bipat
(Post 12746657)
The 1949 Act made them Citizens of the United Kingdom and Colonies. Individual countries could legislate for their own citizenship but retain CUKC if they wished. So therefore they could have a 'foreign' passport and still have FOM into the UK.
You are 'splitting hairs'----The country I know--- they were Indian with Indian passports, after independence. Also as citizens of the Commonwealth---they had FOM into the UK until 1962. 1962 ended the right of free movement. 2) They don't have that right !!!!! I don't know about all Commonwealth countries, certainly those from India have to have a visitor visa!!!! They still have to be sponsored even for a visitor visa, although recently, to my relief, (can't remember which year) the sponsorship doesn't now have to be signed by a notary public. To return to cheddar cheese-----Most of the imported dairy products are from Ireland but added together the amount from several other EU countries is almost equal. |
Re: Commonwealth v EU
Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee
(Post 12746664)
I've posted links to support my statements.
Yes some Commonwealth countries were allowed visa free visits but not all. There were also some changes to student visas but not for all!! In fact Indian authorities reacted negatively at the time. The rights to "live and work in Britain"----(not sure what the words 'whites-only' meant, Indians were not 'white'!) Surely you accept that was FOM??? Also they were not excluded if they also held their own independent country nationality and passports. |
Re: Commonwealth v EU
Originally Posted by Bipat
(Post 12746674)
DLD ---your links are not accurate.
Yes some Commonwealth countries were allowed visa free visits but not all. There were also some changes to student visas but not for all!! In fact Indian authorities reacted negatively at the time. The rights to "live and work in Britain"----(not sure what the words 'whites-only' meant, Indians were not 'white'!) Surely you accept that was FOM??? Also they were not excluded if they also held their own independent country nationality and passports. List of visa-free nationals - UK How the Indian government reacts to UK visa changes is irrelevant. OK, so there appears to be some Commonwealth countries who aren't visa-free to the UK. Yet it seems to be a common misconception. I apologise for my error. It's free movement in the same sense of other British citizens returning to the UK had FoM. Being British, it's my right to enter the UK without restriction in the same way any other British citizen does. That's what the Commonwealth nationals did when made British citizens under the BNA. As for what 'whites-only' means, surely you're not ignorant of the attitudes of the day. Brits back then were happy when their new neighbour was a white Canadian or Australian/New Zealander, not so much if they were from the Caribbean or the Indian sub-continent. It still happens, though less overtly. |
Re: Commonwealth v EU
Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee
(Post 12746712)
1) If my links are inaccurate, you need to contact the authors or publishers to correct them.
List of visa-free nationals - UK How the Indian government reacts to UK visa changes is irrelevant. 1) OK, so there appears to be some Commonwealth countries who aren't visa-free to the UK. Yet it seems to be a common misconception. I apologise for my error. 2) It's free movement in the same sense of other British citizens returning to the UK had FoM. Being British, it's my right to enter the UK without restriction in the same way any other British citizen does. That's what the Commonwealth nationals did when made British citizens under the BNA. As for what 'whites-only' means, surely you're not ignorant of the attitudes of the day. Brits back then were happy when their new neighbour was a white Canadian or Australian/New Zealander, not so much if they were from the Caribbean or the Indian sub-continent. It still happens, though less overtly. I certainly know that for Indian people, a visitor visa is necessary. In fact when in UK we have less visitors nowadays because a Schengen Visa is easier to get. Even a USA is easier. (The sponsor form when they do come is a nuisance but travel agents in India have a standard form which they send to sign, can now do it on-line.) 2) The 'whites' remark was in your link about freedom to settle in UK. Obviously I know it to be untrue; OH came by ship in 1960---the Strathmore, to take exams. The passengers all had Indian passports. They docked at Lisbon and were taken around there by bus sight-seeing---were not allowed to get out of the bus because of the difficulty with Portugal over Goa State. Then on to the UK, stopping at various ports including south of France! (Better than air travel!!:lol:) |
Re: Commonwealth v EU
Originally Posted by Bipat
(Post 12746746)
2) The 'whites' remark was in your link about freedom to settle in UK. Obviously I know it to be untrue; OH came by ship in 1960---the Strathmore, to take exams. The passengers all had Indian passports. They docked at Lisbon and were taken around there by bus sight-seeing---were not allowed to get out of the bus because of the difficulty with Portugal over Goa State. Then on to the UK, stopping at various ports including south of France! (Better than air travel!!:lol:)
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Re: Commonwealth v EU
Originally Posted by Bipat
(Post 12746746)
2) The 'whites' remark was in your link about freedom to settle in UK. Obviously I know it to be untrue; OH came by ship in 1960---the Strathmore, to take exams. The passengers all had Indian passports. They docked at Lisbon and were taken around there by bus sight-seeing---were not allowed to get out of the bus because of the difficulty with Portugal over Goa State. Then on to the UK, stopping at various ports including south of France! (Better than air travel!!:lol:)
At the point of setting out the BNA in 1948, then, British citizenship, together with the right to live and work in Britain, was afforded to in excess of 850 million people (albeit within the white dominion whites-only immigration policies excluded fellow British subjects). |
Re: Commonwealth v EU
Originally Posted by Shard
(Post 12746748)
Luckily he wasn't 3 years younger. It does sound like a fantastic voyage. :thumbup:
Voyage was great apparently and weather good.(There was a TV programme in UK about those that came in the 1950s on the liner Batory). |
Re: Commonwealth v EU
Originally Posted by Red Eric
(Post 12746752)
I think you may have misunderstood what was said if it's this you're commenting on :
… which is saying that the UK had an open to all immigration policy not followed in (all?) the Dominions, which excluded non-whites when it came to immigration to their territories. |
Re: Commonwealth v EU
Here you go Bipat, you have another "Commonwealth advocate" arguing that we have an alternative to the EU. It was from LBC earlier today. I can't say that I am any more convinced.
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Re: Commonwealth v EU
Originally Posted by Bipat
(Post 12746627)
Who knows? So much imported stuff nowadays!
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Re: Commonwealth v EU
Originally Posted by Thairetired2016
(Post 12750533)
From the EU. Enjoy while we sell to UK.
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Re: Commonwealth v EU
Originally Posted by Shard
(Post 12750521)
Here you go Bipat, you have another "Commonwealth advocate" arguing that we have an alternative to the EU. It was from LBC earlier today. I can't say that I am any more convinced.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsTTWODohZ4 I gave it as an example as an association of countries with past shared history and present day very good relationships whether trade/migration/sport/ education/ etc etc. without the need for compulsion. Any member can leave any time! |
Re: Commonwealth v EU
Originally Posted by Bipat
(Post 12750562)
Rather an incoherent tape!!! No one is saying that the Commonwealth is going to be a 'trading block'. The counties do have some FTDs with each other and elsewhere and in in other trading blocks and certainly India will be an important aim for a UK FTD (As it has been for the EU---presume they will keep trying!!)
I gave it as an example as an association of countries with past shared history and present day very good relationships whether trade/migration/sport/ education/ etc etc. without the need for compulsion. Any member can leave any time! |
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