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Climate change.

Climate change.

Old May 12th 2021, 12:14 am
  #421  
 
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
We may just be to a point where the planet simply cannot support the human population and there is truly sustainable way to feed the billions of mouths needing to be fed. Maybe lab grown meat will become a thing, I don't know what the solution is, but seems part of the issue is simply too many humans on the planet all using limited resources.

Birth rates and fertility are actually declining in many places, I believe.

A large part of our problem is the way human behave with the resources that we have. The wealthy over consume by a long, long, way and we don't share well so resources that could be more fairly shared around the planet/continent/country are not. We use too much. In developed countries we have too much stuff, we are too fat and on the wrong foods, we make, use, and throw away way too many things out of non-renewable resources, we believe that we need things that we only want, and we aren't prepared to give any of it up or make any compromises.
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Old May 12th 2021, 6:09 am
  #422  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Thanks. I'll read it a little later.
Curious to know what you thought of those numbers - did they match your expectations or not?

Just saw this article - top 5 Solar Farms in the US. Top 3 are in CA, 1 is in AZ, 1 is in NV. It's obviously out of date because #5 - Crescent Dunes - has already closed down.
https://constructionreviewonline.com...rms-in-the-us/

The biggest solar farm in the US - "Solar Star" - is also the biggest in the world, covering over 13 square Km. Capacity 579 MW.

Europe's largest solar farm is in Spain - 'Nunez de Balboa' 500 MW capacity sitting on 10 square Km.

UK's largest appears to be "Chapel Lane solar farm in Dorset". The area of the farm, which is equivalent to 5,000 tennis courts or 175 football pitches, generates 51 MW. Google tells me: "A 350MW solar farm has been approved for construction on the North Kent coast"

Wikipedia suggests that the biggest solar farm in the world now is "Bhadla Solar Park with a capacity of 2,245 MW. Spread across more than 5,700 hectares (14,000 acres), the park is located at Bhadla village in Jodhpur district in the Indian desert state of Rajasthan.". Second largest in the world is also in India. Third largest in China.

Edit to add - this is cool! - https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier...h=324b927513fe - Australia planning a $16 Billion project that would be "The world’s most ambitious renewable energy project to date is the proposed Australia–ASEAN Power Link. This project would combine the world’s largest solar farm, the largest battery, and longest undersea electricity cable." Will generate 10 GW (that's 20x the biggest so far!). "The project currently envisions an 800 kilometer high-voltage overhead power line to transmit 3 GW to Darwin on the northern coast of Australia’s Northern Territory. From there, it would transfer to a 3,700 km 2.2 GW undersea power line to Singapore. Sun Cable, a Singapore-based company founded in 2018, is behind the proposed $16 billion project." That undersea power line will be 5x longer than the current longest, which runs from UK to Norway.

Last edited by Steerpike; May 12th 2021 at 7:00 am.
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Old May 12th 2021, 6:11 am
  #423  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Birth rates and fertility are actually declining in many places, I believe.

A large part of our problem is the way human behave with the resources that we have. The wealthy over consume by a long, long, way and we don't share well so resources that could be more fairly shared around the planet/continent/country are not. We use too much. In developed countries we have too much stuff, we are too fat and on the wrong foods, we make, use, and throw away way too many things out of non-renewable resources, we believe that we need things that we only want, and we aren't prepared to give any of it up or make any compromises.
You forgot the bit where we just then blame other, poorer nations for the problems.
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Old May 12th 2021, 6:22 am
  #424  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
We may just be to a point where the planet simply cannot support the human population and there is truly sustainable way to feed the billions of mouths needing to be fed. Maybe lab grown meat will become a thing, I don't know what the solution is, but seems part of the issue is simply too many humans on the planet all using limited resources.
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Birth rates and fertility are actually declining in many places, I believe.

A large part of our problem is the way human behave with the resources that we have. The wealthy over consume by a long, long, way and we don't share well so resources that could be more fairly shared around the planet/continent/country are not. We use too much. In developed countries we have too much stuff, we are too fat and on the wrong foods, we make, use, and throw away way too many things out of non-renewable resources, we believe that we need things that we only want, and we aren't prepared to give any of it up or make any compromises.
Both - excess population and excess use of resources by that population - are factors.

Does anyone truly believe that either is going to change much?

We are truly ****ed.
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Old May 12th 2021, 10:19 am
  #425  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
Both - excess population and excess use of resources by that population - are factors.

Does anyone truly believe that either is going to change much?

We are truly ****ed.
Don't worry.... We can colonise Mars and screw that one up again too!
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Old May 12th 2021, 10:45 am
  #426  
 
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
You forgot the bit where we just then blame other, poorer nations for the problems.
Good point. We also use their countries as rubbish dumps.

"
  • Last year, the equivalent of 68,000 shipping containers of American plastic recycling were exported from the US to developing countries that mismanage more than 70% of their own plastic waste.
  • The newest hotspots for handling US plastic recycling are some of the world’s poorest countries, includingBangladesh, Laos, Ethiopia and Senegal, offering cheap labor and limited environmental regulation.
  • In some places, like Turkey, a surge in foreign waste shipments is disrupting efforts to handle locally generated plastics"



    We used to dump it on China, but they don't want it any more.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-global-crisis
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Old May 12th 2021, 4:39 pm
  #427  
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Default Re: Climate change.

While reading about soar (PV) farms, I've read it several times now that the expected lifetime of a PV farm is only about 25 years. I believe this is related to the panels themselves - they cease to be effective after that time (from the Forbes article I linked: "A general rule of thumb is that solar PV systems will last about 25 years. These systems can still produce power beyond that time frame, but significant degradation in the power output will occur by then. "). I'm guessing that the cost of refurbishing a PV farm at that point in time will be much, much less than the original cost to build the farm, because a) all the other infrastructure is already in place, and b) panels will, by all likelihood, be substantially cheaper in the future.
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Old May 12th 2021, 4:45 pm
  #428  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Quite a few people I know have domestic PV systems and I understand 20 years is the norm.

Batteries do not last as long and are a major expense.

Last I heard the installation cost is now more than the cost of the panels, but they still need to be manufactured, shipped, trucked and installed.
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Old May 12th 2021, 4:56 pm
  #429  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
Quite a few people I know have domestic PV systems and I understand 20 years is the norm.

Batteries do not last as long and are a major expense.

Last I heard the installation cost is now more than the cost of the panels, but they still need to be manufactured, shipped, trucked and installed.
Yep. A huge carbon and general environmental footprint and pretty much all "Made in China".
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Old May 12th 2021, 5:47 pm
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by paulry View Post
Yep. A huge carbon and general environmental footprint and pretty much all "Made in China".
I think the batteries were US made.
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Old May 12th 2021, 5:49 pm
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
I think the batteries were US made.
Possibly. Here in Australia, I understand the complete kit comes from China.
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Old May 12th 2021, 10:03 pm
  #432  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Its earth related, I don't think it needs a new thread of its own, and eh I thought it was interesting.

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Old May 12th 2021, 10:39 pm
  #433  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
Curious to know what you thought of those numbers - did they match your expectations or not?

Just saw this article - top 5 Solar Farms in the US. Top 3 are in CA, 1 is in AZ, 1 is in NV. It's obviously out of date because #5 - Crescent Dunes - has already closed down.
https://constructionreviewonline.com...rms-in-the-us/

The biggest solar farm in the US - "Solar Star" - is also the biggest in the world, covering over 13 square Km. Capacity 579 MW.

Europe's largest solar farm is in Spain - 'Nunez de Balboa' 500 MW capacity sitting on 10 square Km.

UK's largest appears to be "Chapel Lane solar farm in Dorset". The area of the farm, which is equivalent to 5,000 tennis courts or 175 football pitches, generates 51 MW. Google tells me: "A 350MW solar farm has been approved for construction on the North Kent coast"

Wikipedia suggests that the biggest solar farm in the world now is "Bhadla Solar Park with a capacity of 2,245 MW. Spread across more than 5,700 hectares (14,000 acres), the park is located at Bhadla village in Jodhpur district in the Indian desert state of Rajasthan.". Second largest in the world is also in India. Third largest in China.

Edit to add - this is cool! - https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier...h=324b927513fe - Australia planning a $16 Billion project that would be "The world’s most ambitious renewable energy project to date is the proposed Australia–ASEAN Power Link. This project would combine the world’s largest solar farm, the largest battery, and longest undersea electricity cable." Will generate 10 GW (that's 20x the biggest so far!). "The project currently envisions an 800 kilometer high-voltage overhead power line to transmit 3 GW to Darwin on the northern coast of Australia’s Northern Territory. From there, it would transfer to a 3,700 km 2.2 GW undersea power line to Singapore. Sun Cable, a Singapore-based company founded in 2018, is behind the proposed $16 billion project." That undersea power line will be 5x longer than the current longest, which runs from UK to Norway.
Thanks. The numbers look ok, but I've wandered down a rabbit hole...

I'll be back.
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Old May 13th 2021, 5:15 am
  #434  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Thanks. The numbers look ok, but I've wandered down a rabbit hole...

I'll be back.
You've got me interested in the UK energy situation now! I can imagine a place like California having a hope of going 'carbon neutral', but UK - a much bigger challenge. California has vast areas of desert, which receive 300+ days of sunshine a year. It has mountains at over 14,000 feet - which receive plenty of snow, and offer plenty of opportunities for hydro. It also has vast areas of 'not much' - which lends itself to wind power. But the UK has little sunshine, not much terrain, and has much higher population density (not much 'wasteland'). So how will it get there?

I did find this rather informative site put out by 'Ofgem' - looks pretty respectable. They have this cool chart on this page - https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/data-portal...fuel-source-gb . This chart is pretty informative:


Large growth in Wind and Solar, and also, 'bioenergy' (what exactly is that?!). Also of interest, overall consumption has gone down, since 1998; presumably through efficiency?
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Old May 13th 2021, 5:20 am
  #435  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Bioenergy is mainly wood.

The decline of Manufacturing is probably the most significant factor in reduced energy consumption.

I thought California had said no more Hydro and was looking at removing dams.

Big problem with PV is that peak production and peak demand do not normally match.
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