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Climate change.

Climate change.

Old Apr 16th 2021, 7:45 pm
  #256  
 
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
Walnut Creek started a program for 'food composting' maybe 10 years ago. We tried our best to use it (and to find a place to store 3 bins). It routinely reaches over 90F during the summer, and occasionally 100F. Try keeping a bin full of waste food outside in that weather for a week! We ended up having to refrigerate all our food waste until 'pick-up' day to avoid a nasty, stinky, gooey mess in the bin. We tried 'staging' it in the garage, but the garage got too stinky also (and led to insect/rodent problems). We found some 'bio-degradable' plastic bags at Whole Foods, which helped, and were reluctantly accepted by the waste company. Then we moved temporarily to an apartment with shared bins for everyone. What a mess that was! Half the residents just didn't give a shit, and every bin got mis-used (food in the recycle bins, recycling in the 'landfill bins', etc). Then we moved into our current 'shared' living situation - this time, a condo. There, everyone tries super-hard to comply, but the food composting bin is a mess - you pretty much need to hold your nose as you approach the garbage area now, and we are starting to see rodent problems.

I can imagine Chicago in the summer could get nice and 'ripe' with a bunch of food composting bins!

It would, but it all composts rots in the dumpsters anyway, with the rats popping in and out at will.
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Old Apr 16th 2021, 7:57 pm
  #257  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Oh, the irony....

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Old Apr 16th 2021, 8:01 pm
  #258  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
It would, but it all composts rots in the dumpsters anyway, with the rats popping in and out at will.
Reminds me of my old visits to New York City (Manhattan) for business. I was lucky enough to stay at reasonably decent hotels in nice areas of Manhattan. At night, I would go out walking and ... oh my, everywhere you turn in Manhattan there were piles of big black plastic bags and the rats were everywhere! I guess all those high-rise office buildings and restaurants have no alternative other than to pile their garbage out on the street at night for pickup. Given the size of the buildings, I imagine it's a daily thing too; not just once a week or so. So there I was, in what was basically a very affluent part of an affluent city, watching rats running around freely and stepping around piles of garbage bags!
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Old Apr 16th 2021, 8:06 pm
  #259  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
Reminds me of my old visits to New York City (Manhattan) for business. I was lucky enough to stay at reasonably decent hotels in nice areas of Manhattan. At night, I would go out walking and ... oh my, everywhere you turn in Manhattan there were piles of big black plastic bags and the rats were everywhere! I guess all those high-rise office buildings and restaurants have no alternative other than to pile their garbage out on the street at night for pickup. Given the size of the buildings, I imagine it's a daily thing too; not just once a week or so. So there I was, in what was basically a very affluent part of an affluent city, watching rats running around freely and stepping around piles of garbage bags!

I had no idea NYC did that. Looking on YouTube there are very recent videos in NY showing trash piled at the street. I do not think I have ever lived in any city that did this. Sure in cans or dumpsters, but not literally throwing bags of trash onto the sidewalk.

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Old Apr 16th 2021, 8:13 pm
  #260  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
I had no idea NYC did that. Looking on YouTube there are very recent videos in NY showing trash piled at the street. I do not think I have ever lived in any city that did this. Sure in cans or dumpsters, but not literally throwing bags of trash onto the sidewalk.
I was shocked when I saw it. My last visit was circa 2010, when we had a big client there. I think it's not uncommon in commercial / high-rise areas of big cities; I THINK I've seen it in San Francisco, but I must say it's been a while since I was in downtown SF after dark! Giantaxe could certainly chime in here.

Update - wow, looking at your video brings back memories! So it's not just late at night, even! Amazing.
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Old Apr 16th 2021, 8:13 pm
  #261  
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Default Re: Climate change.

We here in Southern BC are having record breaking spring heat, a fair chunk above normal, every year we seem to get warmer and drier earlier in the year.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...2021-1.5990511
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Old Apr 16th 2021, 8:27 pm
  #262  
 
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
Reminds me of my old visits to New York City (Manhattan) for business. I was lucky enough to stay at reasonably decent hotels in nice areas of Manhattan. At night, I would go out walking and ... oh my, everywhere you turn in Manhattan there were piles of big black plastic bags and the rats were everywhere! I guess all those high-rise office buildings and restaurants have no alternative other than to pile their garbage out on the street at night for pickup. Given the size of the buildings, I imagine it's a daily thing too; not just once a week or so. So there I was, in what was basically a very affluent part of an affluent city, watching rats running around freely and stepping around piles of garbage bags!
Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
I had no idea NYC did that. Looking on YouTube there are very recent videos in NY showing trash piled at the street. I do not think I have ever lived in any city that did this. Sure in cans or dumpsters, but not literally throwing bags of trash onto the sidewalk.

Yeah, I lived in Manhattan for a few years, back in the bad/good old days before it all got scrubbed and totally unaffordable. Commercial rubbish (businesses as opposed to residences) used to be all picked up by, um, private contractors. Think Sopranos. So it didn't end up on the streets. Residential rubbish was another matter and regular garbage collector issues meant that rubbish often was on the streets like that. A lot of the stuff in that video looks like commercial rubbish though, so I guess that's what happens when you chase the mafia out of town. I sued to live very close to that spot, on West 96th.

Last edited by Lion in Winter; Apr 16th 2021 at 8:31 pm.
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Old Apr 24th 2021, 12:48 am
  #263  
 
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Default Re: Climate change.

Extinction rebellion people acquitted by jury, despite "no defense in law".

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-56853979

Good for the jury.
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Old Apr 24th 2021, 1:05 am
  #264  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Extinction rebellion people acquitted by jury, despite "no defense in law".

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-56853979

Good for the jury.
Before reaching their verdicts, the jurors had asked to see a copy of the oath they took when they were sworn in
Looks like they didnt take the decision lightly.
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Old Apr 24th 2021, 2:14 am
  #265  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Extinction rebellion people acquitted by jury, despite "no defense in law".

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-56853979

Good for the jury.
So is that legally acceptable? I thought a jury had to follow legal guidelines. Imagine if a jury cleared a white supremacist of violence against a black person despite clear legal (precedence?) (not sure what the correct legal term is here). Could this not result in a valid appeal?
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Old Apr 24th 2021, 2:28 am
  #266  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
So is that legally acceptable? I thought a jury had to follow legal guidelines. Imagine if a jury cleared a white supremacist of violence against a black person despite clear legal (precedence?) (not sure what the correct legal term is here). Could this not result in a valid appeal?
That used to happen all the time in the US South. At least in the US, an appeal cannot change a not guilty conviction into a guilty one. But a defendant does run the risk of having federal charges subsequently brought against them, as long as double jeopardy doesn't occur. An example would be the four police officers in the Rodney King case.

https://fija.org/library-and-resourc...ification.html
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Old Apr 24th 2021, 2:53 am
  #267  
 
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
So is that legally acceptable? I thought a jury had to follow legal guidelines.
Apparently, yes it is, and yes they did. The judge certainly suggested nothing to the contrary. I feel he would have mentioned it otherwise.

British juries have something called "power of discretion" to enable them to bring about justice, because sometimes, as we know, the law is an ass. I don't know anything more about it though, and I expect it could cut both ways.

Last edited by Lion in Winter; Apr 24th 2021 at 2:57 am.
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Old Apr 24th 2021, 3:10 am
  #268  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Apparently, yes it is, and yes they did. The judge certainly suggested nothing to the contrary. I feel he would have mentioned it otherwise.

British juries have something called "power of discretion" to enable them to bring about justice, because sometimes, as we know, the law is an ass. I don't know anything more about it though, and I expect it could cut both ways.
Blatantly destroying property and getting away with it seems to be a scary road to go down.
Here's another one I found while reading more about the original case. In the video, we see numerous people calmly shattering massive glass windows. I guess this generates more work for builders, for glass makers, etc.
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Old Apr 24th 2021, 3:20 am
  #269  
 
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
Blatantly destroying property and getting away with it seems to be a scary road to go down.
Here's another one I found while reading more about the original case. In the video, we see numerous people calmly shattering massive glass windows. I guess this generates more work for builders, for glass makers, etc.
The jury seemed to think that, in the case of these specific people, there are things more important than property.

From one of those now cleared:

"Clifford quoted Sir David Attenborough and former archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams in his evidence.He said: “I believe if I don’t do whatever I can to protect our Earth, to protect life on this Earth, to stop the death and injury that is and will be happening, I’m committing a crime, a really serious crime, and I’m willing to break a window, to paint a message on a wall, I’m willing to break the glass on that emergency button, even if some say that’s a crime". “Because this is a much bigger crime and I’m trying to stop that crime, I’m trying to protect life in the only way I feel I can.”

And:

"All those who stood trial explained they had targeted the Shell building because the oil giant was directly contributing to the climate crisis, thereby causing serious injury and death, and argued that it was a “necessary” and “proportionate” response to the harm being caused."

Seems the jury agreed.
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Old Apr 24th 2021, 3:56 am
  #270  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
The jury seemed to think that, in the case of these specific people, there are things more important than property.

From one of those now cleared:

"Clifford quoted Sir David Attenborough and former archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams in his evidence.He said: “I believe if I don’t do whatever I can to protect our Earth, to protect life on this Earth, to stop the death and injury that is and will be happening, I’m committing a crime, a really serious crime, and I’m willing to break a window, to paint a message on a wall, I’m willing to break the glass on that emergency button, even if some say that’s a crime". “Because this is a much bigger crime and I’m trying to stop that crime, I’m trying to protect life in the only way I feel I can.”

And:

"All those who stood trial explained they had targeted the Shell building because the oil giant was directly contributing to the climate crisis, thereby causing serious injury and death, and argued that it was a “necessary” and “proportionate” response to the harm being caused."

Seems the jury agreed.
I understand your position; on the specifics, we can agree to disagree. But don't you think this could go both ways in the future? There could be a case where you disagree with the 'motives' but a jury finds the defendants not guilty even though a clear crime was committed. 'The law' is supposed to be independent of the 'motives' to a large degree. I'm primarily concerned that this sets a dangerous precedent.
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