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Climate change.

Climate change.

Old Apr 16th 2021, 4:08 am
  #241  
 
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
Always amazes me that the strategy here is to greatly inconvenience people in order to get the message across. Why not have a 'free cookies and lemonade' event at a downtown park, or a 'join us for a community barbecue' event to raise awareness of climage change; but no, it always has to be "lets create total gridlock in the middle of the day ... that'll make them like us and support our cause! "
Creating a problem is what creates the pressure. It isn't meant to make them popular with the public, it's meant to make things difficult for those with power. Inconvenienced, angry people make things difficult. Sooner or later they will Expect Something To Be Done.
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Old Apr 16th 2021, 4:26 am
  #242  
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Default Re: Climate change.

I think 'sustainable waste sorting' goes in this thread.

Our local Council's FOGO (Food Organics Garden Organics) waste program started recently, it's been a bit of a faff getting used to what goes in which bin but it's fine once you're used to it.

Small FOGO kitchen caddy/bin in the kitchen, along with compostable bags. All food waste including bones goes in it as well as some types of paper. That bag then goes in the big garden organic waste bin, and it's all turned into compost. The other 2 big bins are for recycling material, and general household waste.

The funniest thing is seeing which bins people leave out for collection on any given week. It's all changed, with the organic waste bin getting emptied every week (instead of every second week), the general household waste bin emptied every second week (instead of every week), and the recycling bin still being emptied every second week.

Scouse and I were in hysterics when the bloke over the road told us he put out what he thought were the right bins, then saw that the next door neighbour had put out something else, so he wheeled his 'correct' bin back and bought out the wrong one. Then as he was going to work he saw his neighbour wheeling the 'wrong' bin back inside, asked him what was going on, and was told that he'd seen the bins I'd put out and realised he'd got it wrong. So the bloke over the road had to get out of his car and wheel his 'wrong' bin back to the garage and put out the right one, which he'd put out originally

It's all go in our neighbourhood.
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Old Apr 16th 2021, 4:38 am
  #243  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse View Post
I think 'sustainable waste sorting' goes in this thread.

Our local Council's FOGO (Food Organics Garden Organics) waste program started recently, it's been a bit of a faff getting used to what goes in which bin but it's fine once you're used to it.

Small FOGO kitchen caddy/bin in the kitchen, along with compostable bags. All food waste including bones goes in it as well as some types of paper. That bag then goes in the big garden organic waste bin, and it's all turned into compost. The other 2 big bins are for recycling material, and general household waste.

The funniest thing is seeing which bins people leave out for collection on any given week. It's all changed, with the organic waste bin getting emptied every week (instead of every second week), the general household waste bin emptied every second week (instead of every week), and the recycling bin still being emptied every second week.

Scouse and I were in hysterics when the bloke over the road told us he put out what he thought were the right bins, then saw that the next door neighbour had put out something else, so he wheeled his 'correct' bin back and bought out the wrong one. Then as he was going to work he saw his neighbour wheeling the 'wrong' bin back inside, asked him what was going on, and was told that he'd seen the bins I'd put out and realised he'd got it wrong. So the bloke over the road had to get out of his car and wheel his 'wrong' bin back to the garage and put out the right one, which he'd put out originally

It's all go in our neighbourhood.
San Francisco has been doing this since around 2008. What I notice most is how much less household waste we generate. All three bins can still be picked up every week, but you can get a smaller household waste bin (actually it's the same size but with an insert to reduce its volume). Even with the insert, I think we put that bin out less than once every two weeks. The recycling bin is pretty much full each week and the composting bin maybe a third full.

Most cities in the San Francisco Bay Area used to dump all their trash - literally - in the bay. Thankfully those days have long gone.
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Old Apr 16th 2021, 5:30 am
  #244  
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Default Re: Climate change.

In the area we are the only recycling we can do currently is cardboard & metal food cans. (bottles and cans with deposits like soda, or bottled water can be recycled at a depot but not curbside at our apartment building) the trash company can't find buyers for plastics and other technically recyclable materials so they stopped accepting it after they filled their yard with bales and bales of recycling with no buyers.

At least Victoria, BC after decades of protests from both Canadian's and US and Washington state governments has finally opened a sewage treatment plant, prior to the plant opening not long ago, Victoria dumped their raw sewage straight into the ocean.

IN California we have city's recycling sewage water back into drinking water, and in Canada we have city's who barely started doing basic treatment.

Don't let the reputation of Canada fool you, Canada isn't as green and environmental as the international community thinks.

We don't even have vehicle emissions testing anymore in BC.
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Old Apr 16th 2021, 1:47 pm
  #245  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
Always amazes me that the strategy here is to greatly inconvenience people in order to get the message across. Why not have a 'free cookies and lemonade' event at a downtown park, or a 'join us for a community barbecue' event to raise awareness of climage change; but no, it always has to be "lets create total gridlock in the middle of the day ... that'll make them like us and support our cause! "






Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
The media doesn't report on "free cookies and lemonade" but it does report on this kind of stunt. And that reporting is carried to far more people than those that are inconvenienced.
Like chaining oneself to railings, arson, walking in front of the King's horse etc
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Old Apr 16th 2021, 1:59 pm
  #246  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
San Francisco has been doing this since around 2008. What I notice most is how much less household waste we generate. All three bins can still be picked up every week, but you can get a smaller household waste bin (actually it's the same size but with an insert to reduce its volume). Even with the insert, I think we put that bin out less than once every two weeks. The recycling bin is pretty much full each week and the composting bin maybe a third full.

Most cities in the San Francisco Bay Area used to dump all their trash - literally - in the bay. Thankfully those days have long gone.
I've noticed that too Giantaxe, far less household waste. Really glad to have somewhere useful to put all the food scraps, especially the veggie outers/peelings as we seem to generate a lot of that!
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Old Apr 16th 2021, 2:39 pm
  #247  
 
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse View Post
I think 'sustainable waste sorting' goes in this thread.

Our local Council's FOGO (Food Organics Garden Organics) waste program started recently, it's been a bit of a faff getting used to what goes in which bin but it's fine once you're used to it.

Small FOGO kitchen caddy/bin in the kitchen, along with compostable bags. All food waste including bones goes in it as well as some types of paper. That bag then goes in the big garden organic waste bin, and it's all turned into compost. The other 2 big bins are for recycling material, and general household waste.

The funniest thing is seeing which bins people leave out for collection on any given week. It's all changed, with the organic waste bin getting emptied every week (instead of every second week), the general household waste bin emptied every second week (instead of every week), and the recycling bin still being emptied every second week.

Scouse and I were in hysterics when the bloke over the road told us he put out what he thought were the right bins, then saw that the next door neighbour had put out something else, so he wheeled his 'correct' bin back and bought out the wrong one. Then as he was going to work he saw his neighbour wheeling the 'wrong' bin back inside, asked him what was going on, and was told that he'd seen the bins I'd put out and realised he'd got it wrong. So the bloke over the road had to get out of his car and wheel his 'wrong' bin back to the garage and put out the right one, which he'd put out originally

It's all go in our neighbourhood.
Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
San Francisco has been doing this since around 2008. What I notice most is how much less household waste we generate. All three bins can still be picked up every week, but you can get a smaller household waste bin (actually it's the same size but with an insert to reduce its volume). Even with the insert, I think we put that bin out less than once every two weeks. The recycling bin is pretty much full each week and the composting bin maybe a third full.

Most cities in the San Francisco Bay Area used to dump all their trash - literally - in the bay. Thankfully those days have long gone.
Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
In the area we are the only recycling we can do currently is cardboard & metal food cans. (bottles and cans with deposits like soda, or bottled water can be recycled at a depot but not curbside at our apartment building) the trash company can't find buyers for plastics and other technically recyclable materials so they stopped accepting it after they filled their yard with bales and bales of recycling with no buyers.

At least Victoria, BC after decades of protests from both Canadian's and US and Washington state governments has finally opened a sewage treatment plant, prior to the plant opening not long ago, Victoria dumped their raw sewage straight into the ocean.

IN California we have city's recycling sewage water back into drinking water, and in Canada we have city's who barely started doing basic treatment.

Don't let the reputation of Canada fool you, Canada isn't as green and environmental as the international community thinks.

We don't even have vehicle emissions testing anymore in BC.

Chicago area is incredibly backward in this stuff. For our apartment building we have a) a dumpster for unspecified rubbish and b) another dumpster for 'recycling' of some paper and some plastic items and c) a big fat zero on the composting.
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Old Apr 16th 2021, 2:44 pm
  #248  
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Default Re: Climate change.

I recently did a road trip to So Cal and it was quite an eye opener.

The sheer number of Semi's Warehouses, Distribution Centers and Traffic.

Admittedly lots of Tesla's being Valet parked.

Anyway just looking around the whole concept of GND amused me. It will be interesting to see but how you turn this around seems impossible.

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Old Apr 16th 2021, 3:45 pm
  #249  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Chicago area is incredibly backward in this stuff. For our apartment building we have a) a dumpster for unspecified rubbish and b) another dumpster for 'recycling' of some paper and some plastic items and c) a big fat zero on the composting.
And even in places with all the recycling bins and such, how much is actually in the end being recycled?

Especially plastic. It's estimated in Canada only 9% of plastic actually ends up recycled.

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Old Apr 16th 2021, 4:00 pm
  #250  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
And even in places with all the recycling bins and such, how much is actually in the end being recycled?

Especially plastic. It's estimated in Canada only 9% of plastic actually ends up recycled.
You can not recycle plastic, degrades, maybe reuse?
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Old Apr 16th 2021, 6:58 pm
  #251  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
The media doesn't report on "free cookies and lemonade" but it does report on this kind of stunt. And that reporting is carried to far more people than those that are inconvenienced.
Totally agree that it gets them more coverage, but how sure are we that 'any coverage' (even negative coverage) is better than none? San Francisco is notoriously 'active' in this regard, and having suffered numerous gridlock situations in the past, it does nothing but alienate me from their cause. I'm committed to environmental causes, but events like this don't make me any more likely to support them. And for fence-sitters, it's more likely to turn them against the cause.
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Creating a problem is what creates the pressure. It isn't meant to make them popular with the public, it's meant to make things difficult for those with power. Inconvenienced, angry people make things difficult. Sooner or later they will Expect Something To Be Done.
It's not clear to me that a lousy traffic gridlock situation will make 'those in power' do anything differently (in regards to the environment). Meanwhile, very real issues like emergency vehicles unable to get to their destinations cause real suffering. The gas wasted by thousands of vehicles sitting idling for hours is also somewhat counter-productive.

I bought a Hybrid car in Feb (as did Giantaxe, recently, if I recall). I wasn't influenced by idiots blocking traffic.
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Old Apr 16th 2021, 7:03 pm
  #252  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
You can not recycle plastic, degrades, maybe reuse?
I think you need to expand your interpretation of 'recycle'. Here's just one example where plastics are being recycled into new products:

Plastic Bag & Film Recycling | NexTrex (basically, plastic bags transformed into synthetic decking)

Further - not all plastics are created equally. Certain plastics are notoriously difficult / expensive to process, but others are much easier.

Edit To Add - I think the push to reduce wasteful packaging needs to be given more attention.

Last edited by Steerpike; Apr 16th 2021 at 7:11 pm.
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Old Apr 16th 2021, 7:08 pm
  #253  
 
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
Totally agree that it gets them more coverage, but how sure are we that 'any coverage' (even negative coverage) is better than none? San Francisco is notoriously 'active' in this regard, and having suffered numerous gridlock situations in the past, it does nothing but alienate me from their cause. I'm committed to environmental causes, but events like this don't make me any more likely to support them. And for fence-sitters, it's more likely to turn them against the cause.

It's not clear to me that a lousy traffic gridlock situation will make 'those in power' do anything differently (in regards to the environment). Meanwhile, very real issues like emergency vehicles unable to get to their destinations cause real suffering. The gas wasted by thousands of vehicles sitting idling for hours is also somewhat counter-productive.

I bought a Hybrid car in Feb (as did Giantaxe, recently, if I recall). I wasn't influenced by idiots blocking traffic.

It may not always be the right tactic for everyone or every cause. Sometimes it's the only one though, and convenience for others isn't top of the list of considerations. As the late, great Saul Alinsky said, "no politician can sit on an issue if you make it hot enough".






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Old Apr 16th 2021, 7:08 pm
  #254  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
I recently did a road trip to So Cal and it was quite an eye opener.

The sheer number of Semi's Warehouses, Distribution Centers and Traffic.

Admittedly lots of Tesla's being Valet parked.

Anyway just looking around the whole concept of GND amused me. It will be interesting to see but how you turn this around seems impossible.
GND? What's that?

LA county has 10 million residents; 'SoCal' has 24 million residents; Colorado has 5. So I would expect more trucks, distribution centers, traffic, etc. Not sure what your point is there.
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Old Apr 16th 2021, 7:32 pm
  #255  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
San Francisco has been doing this since around 2008. What I notice most is how much less household waste we generate. All three bins can still be picked up every week, but you can get a smaller household waste bin (actually it's the same size but with an insert to reduce its volume). Even with the insert, I think we put that bin out less than once every two weeks. The recycling bin is pretty much full each week and the composting bin maybe a third full.

Most cities in the San Francisco Bay Area used to dump all their trash - literally - in the bay. Thankfully those days have long gone.
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Chicago area is incredibly backward in this stuff. For our apartment building we have a) a dumpster for unspecified rubbish and b) another dumpster for 'recycling' of some paper and some plastic items and c) a big fat zero on the composting.
Walnut Creek started a program for 'food composting' maybe 10 years ago. We tried our best to use it (and to find a place to store 3 bins). It routinely reaches over 90F during the summer, and occasionally 100F. Try keeping a bin full of waste food outside in that weather for a week! We ended up having to refrigerate all our food waste until 'pick-up' day to avoid a nasty, stinky, gooey mess in the bin. We tried 'staging' it in the garage, but the garage got too stinky also (and led to insect/rodent problems). We found some 'bio-degradable' plastic bags at Whole Foods, which helped, and were reluctantly accepted by the waste company. Then we moved temporarily to an apartment with shared bins for everyone. What a mess that was! Half the residents just didn't give a shit, and every bin got mis-used (food in the recycle bins, recycling in the 'landfill bins', etc). Then we moved into our current 'shared' living situation - this time, a condo. There, everyone tries super-hard to comply, but the food composting bin is a mess - you pretty much need to hold your nose as you approach the garbage area now, and we are starting to see rodent problems.

I can imagine Chicago in the summer could get nice and 'ripe' with a bunch of food composting bins!


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