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Climate change.

Climate change.

Old Apr 11th 2021, 12:13 am
  #226  
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Default Re: Climate change.

I don't know if this has been posted yet. Its the NYT so could be a paywall, sometimes I get one there, sometimes I don't, this time I didn't.

In the Atlantic Ocean, Subtle Shifts Hint at Dramatic Dangers
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Old Apr 11th 2021, 5:50 am
  #227  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
Kind of related to climate change. Logging is a big thing here in BC, it can at times also be controversial.

Logs being used for wood pellets.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...lets-1.5979498

Old Growth forests being logged is another controversial subject here

https://www.cheknews.ca/b-c-governme...ogging-754547/

BC has about 50 million hectares of forest of which 13.7 million is considered old growth, much of that 13.7 million are bog or high alpine with small trees so not logged. The controversy is over the 108,000 hectares of old growth that is left with huge large old trees people tend to associate with old growth forests.

https://www.cheknews.ca/b-c-governme...ogging-754547/


The coastal forests of BC are temperate rain forests, filled with life, after the loggers come through they are ugly and devoid of life, even though they replant they tend to plant just species of value so we end up with 2nd growth forests that don't look natural, and of only species of economic value, and tees that look too perfectly spaced.

I find it at times interesting how people will in one breath say Brazil is bad for cutting down rainforest, or this country is bad for cutting rain forest for palm oil, all the while the same people look the other way when it comes to cutting down forests in their own backyard.

More photos at this link.
https://thenarwhal.ca/bc-old-growth-...sland-caycuse/





Will read the links later, thanks, but those pictures - wow!
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Old Apr 11th 2021, 3:58 pm
  #228  
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Default Re: Climate change.

I have seen similar sights to that in NZ. Vast areas of forest cut down. In fairness, NZ do replant.
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Old Apr 11th 2021, 4:06 pm
  #229  
 
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Default Re: Climate change.

I've been in clear cuts in Oregon. They are incredibly destructive in multiple ways, and very sad to be in. There's no substitute for old growth, either. It's a lot more than just the tree.
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Old Apr 11th 2021, 6:29 pm
  #230  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
I've been in clear cuts in Oregon. They are incredibly destructive in multiple ways, and very sad to be in. There's no substitute for old growth, either. It's a lot more than just the tree.

This is what annoys me about the we plant trees brigade so its all good, that these old growth forests are unique ecosystems and as you say its more than just the trees.

Imagine cutting down all the giant sequoias in California then justifying it with, we replanted so its all good.

2nd growth replanted forest after logging, in the photo below, compare this to the old growth forests earlier post. Plus second growth forests never get old, they are logged again in 30-55 years.

"Replanting does not adequately replicate an old-growth forest ecosystem. Second-growth or replanted forests lack many of the important features of old-growth forests. The trees are all the same age, so there are few gaps in the canopy to let light through and allow a rich understory to grow – in old-growth forests, the multi-layered canopy of differently aged trees allows sunlight through, creating a rich, luxuriant understory that provides food and habitat for many species. It would take a long time, at least 200 years, for replanted stands to regain important old-growth characteristics, but because the rotations are about 55 years on Crown lands on BC’s coast and as low as 30 years on private lands these second-growth stands will never regain these characteristics. Many species, such as the marbled murrelet and spotted owl, can only survive in old-growth forests and these species are being driven to extinction due to logging in their critical habitat."

https://www.ancientforestalliance.or...e/myths-facts/





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Old Apr 11th 2021, 9:56 pm
  #231  
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Default Re: Climate change.

I first saw massive clear cuts on Vancouver Island. It was a horrible sight. There was a Greenpeace (?) protest going on but of course nothing was going to stop the wholesale destruction of the old growth forest.
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Old Apr 11th 2021, 10:37 pm
  #232  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
I first saw massive clear cuts on Vancouver Island. It was a horrible sight. There was a Greenpeace (?) protest going on but of course nothing was going to stop the wholesale destruction of the old growth forest.

There is/was a blockade at one of the sites recently, not sure if its still there, I believe the courts issued an injunction in favor of the logging company.

The government excels at spinning the stats, they make it look like there is more old growth forest than there is, by including forests in bog lands and alpine, yes technically old, but not the same level as the actual old growth rain forests, not the same thing at all, totally different type of ecosystems.

Can't forget about the spraying of herbicide at the replanted logging areas they do every year.

"Every year, B.C. sprays about 10,000 hectares of forests with glyphosate as part of its reforestation program. The practice, which is also common in other parts of the country, gives replanted conifers a better chance to grow by killing competing plants like aspen and birch. "



fisherman who complain about seals and sea lions eating all the fish, literally blaming marine carnivores for the destruction of fish stocks, yes its the seals and seal lions doing it, can't possibly be all the fishing boats taking massive amounts of fish from the sea, nope its the seals and sea lions that are the problem.


Last edited by Jsmth321; Apr 11th 2021 at 10:50 pm.
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Old Apr 15th 2021, 8:42 pm
  #233  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Well this may lead to an interesting weekend.

https://www.richmond-news.com/local-...tunnel-3636362
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Old Apr 15th 2021, 10:03 pm
  #234  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
The 'support' for Internal Combustion Engined cars appears to be in the form of freezing fuel duties.

The obvious course for the UK to take is (and always has been) to squeeze ICE usage by gradually increasing fuel excise and using that to subsidise PEVs.

I don't really know why they don't do this.
Money and politics.

Governments make a lot of tax revenue from oil, but if the raise the tax too much, opposition parties will campaign and win elections on lower taxes....

The oil industry makes a lot of money on volume of product, so even a 5% drop in volume hurts their profit, which is one of the reasons they pay lobbyists lots of money to keep that volume going. If consumers can afford to put extra fuel in their tank for the weekend, or spend a little extra money in the forecourt shop or car wash, that's a win for the retailer as well.

Some politicians make a lot of money from these lobbyists in office and afterwards. They're not going to give that up.

Ultimately though, it's power. Saudi Arabia can reduce the amount of oil it produces anytime it wants, for any reason. And every time it does, the base cost rises. Anytime they want to increase production, the price drops. Any country that decides to reduce the amount of oil they import could find the world's biggest supplier stopping delivery until the situation changes again. It may be extreme, but it's possible.

Large-scale renewable energy is the right way to go, but it's going to have to be a hard and fast switchover from fossil fuels, and that's never going to get any political traction until the Middle East is almost out of oil. Which is coming.
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Old Apr 16th 2021, 12:18 am
  #235  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
Well this may lead to an interesting weekend.

https://www.richmond-news.com/local-...tunnel-3636362
Always amazes me that the strategy here is to greatly inconvenience people in order to get the message across. Why not have a 'free cookies and lemonade' event at a downtown park, or a 'join us for a community barbecue' event to raise awareness of climage change; but no, it always has to be "lets create total gridlock in the middle of the day ... that'll make them like us and support our cause! "
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Old Apr 16th 2021, 12:52 am
  #236  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
Always amazes me that the strategy here is to greatly inconvenience people in order to get the message across. Why not have a 'free cookies and lemonade' event at a downtown park, or a 'join us for a community barbecue' event to raise awareness of climage change; but no, it always has to be "lets create total gridlock in the middle of the day ... that'll make them like us and support our cause! "
I very much agree with your point, but consider this. How many people would attend something like that if they weren't already interested in doing something about climate change? Very few, and some of those that would are only there for the free cookies...

Causing gridlock brings much greater attention to a cause, and is newsworthy no matter which side one is on. The more views, clicks and comments, the bigger the audience. It might now win them friends this time, but neither will baking cookies.
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Old Apr 16th 2021, 1:19 am
  #237  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
Always amazes me that the strategy here is to greatly inconvenience people in order to get the message across. Why not have a 'free cookies and lemonade' event at a downtown park, or a 'join us for a community barbecue' event to raise awareness of climage change; but no, it always has to be "lets create total gridlock in the middle of the day ... that'll make them like us and support our cause! "
It's going to suck for anyone who needed to get anywhere through the tunnel that is going to be blocked for a time. There is an alternate route but it will require people to drive further and use more gas.

The red flag is the tunnel location, as you can see not a variety of alternatives, one basically.


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Old Apr 16th 2021, 1:22 am
  #238  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
It's going to suck for anyone who needed to get anywhere through the tunnel that is going to be blocked for a time. There is an alternate route but it will require people to drive further and use more gas.

The red flag is the tunnel location, as you can see not a variety of alternatives, one basically.

The lack of easily-taken alternatives makes that the perfect location for something like this.
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Old Apr 16th 2021, 1:29 am
  #239  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
Always amazes me that the strategy here is to greatly inconvenience people in order to get the message across. Why not have a 'free cookies and lemonade' event at a downtown park, or a 'join us for a community barbecue' event to raise awareness of climage change; but no, it always has to be "lets create total gridlock in the middle of the day ... that'll make them like us and support our cause! "
The media doesn't report on "free cookies and lemonade" but it does report on this kind of stunt. And that reporting is carried to far more people than those that are inconvenienced.
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Old Apr 16th 2021, 1:30 am
  #240  
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
The lack of easily-taken alternatives makes that the perfect location for something like this.
Yep and we have a fair chunk of such locations due to rivers and ocean and general geography, its not hard to block routes that really cause havoc.



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