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Climate change.

Climate change.

Old Mar 3rd 2020, 8:21 pm
  #1  
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Default Climate change.

I suppose I would class myself as a sceptic in so much that whilst I believe that climate change is at least in part our doing, I don't however believe that reducing carbon emissions will have any effect, not on its own anyway. If we truly wanted to save the planet we'd be seriously looking at drastic population reduction and control, huge scale re-forestation, total ban on single use plastics, and any still used fully recyclable. Recycling in general needs to be run not as a business, but as a way of preserving resources, in other words not to make a profit. I've seen councils stop recycling specific things (plastic milk bottles) because there was no money in it, completely missing the point of what they were doing.
We need to not so much reduce the harm we're doing to the planet as actually start healing it, which is going to involve huge changes, even to the way our economies run, perpetual growth in economy requires perpetual growth in population, and that isn't sustainable. I doubt I'll still be around for when it all really irreversibly turns to shit, but I kind of like my kids.
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Old Mar 3rd 2020, 8:42 pm
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Default Re: Climate change.

They need a new name, I mean hasn't the climate always changed naturally so calling it climate change makes it appear its never changed before naturally which we know isn't true.

We didn't have kids, live in a small apartment in a fairly dense city, mostly use transit, take few vacations, so we have done our part, its time for those living in houses in the burbs, taking vacations every year or multiples a year, driving their cars to work from the burbs, having kids to do their part and not lecture those of us who will never come close to a carbon footprint a family living in the burbs with kids have.

Being low income by its nature makes us conserve from necessity.

(one must not take the above too seriously, as it was not written in such a way, although there is some truth to it all, so don't get all crazy taking it super seriously okie dokie)










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Old Mar 3rd 2020, 8:48 pm
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
I suppose I would class myself as a sceptic in so much that whilst I believe that climate change is at least in part our doing, I don't however believe that reducing carbon emissions will have any effect, not on its own anyway. If we truly wanted to save the planet we'd be seriously looking at drastic population reduction and control, huge scale re-forestation, total ban on single use plastics, and any still used fully recyclable. Recycling in general needs to be run not as a business, but as a way of preserving resources, in other words not to make a profit. I've seen councils stop recycling specific things (plastic milk bottles) because there was no money in it, completely missing the point of what they were doing.
We need to not so much reduce the harm we're doing to the planet as actually start healing it, which is going to involve huge changes, even to the way our economies run, perpetual growth in economy requires perpetual growth in population, and that isn't sustainable. I doubt I'll still be around for when it all really irreversibly turns to shit, but I kind of like my kids.
Certainly the population issue seems to get some hot under the collar - they seem to feel we can keep expanding the earth's population and it has no impact on climate change or resource conservation at all - normally like *** they jump on a SJW bandwagon and suggest it is racist or similar.

I saw some woman in the UK was in the papers this week regarding her nine children and people were commenting on FB about how delightful it was etc etc - until these sort of people are educated and actively shamed then I don't see much hope.

The reality is that billions of existing Chinese/Indians/Africans/South Americans would like to life the affluent climate-controlled lives of plenty that we live and that will be a disaster for the planet.

Tragedy of the Commons I'm afraid, time for the UK gov to understand this and use expanded fracking/oil/gas revenues to start preparing for sea level rises etc. The UK is around 1% of CO2e emissions, places like China are 28%. And before the SJWs start carping on about emissions per head, the environment doesn't care about your PC concerns, it's the total emissions that matter regardless.

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Old Mar 3rd 2020, 9:01 pm
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
I suppose I would class myself as a sceptic in so much that whilst I believe that climate change is at least in part our doing, I don't however believe that reducing carbon emissions will have any effect, not on its own anyway. If we truly wanted to save the planet we'd be seriously looking at drastic population reduction and control, huge scale re-forestation, total ban on single use plastics, and any still used fully recyclable. Recycling in general needs to be run not as a business, but as a way of preserving resources, in other words not to make a profit. I've seen councils stop recycling specific things (plastic milk bottles) because there was no money in it, completely missing the point of what they were doing.
We need to not so much reduce the harm we're doing to the planet as actually start healing it, which is going to involve huge changes, even to the way our economies run, perpetual growth in economy requires perpetual growth in population, and that isn't sustainable. I doubt I'll still be around for when it all really irreversibly turns to shit, but I kind of like my kids.

Mostly likely all of those things need addressing. Some parts of the world consume waaaay more than other parts of the world, and as I said on the other thread we are not willing to give all that up. It isn't just how many of us there are, but what we do and how we live. Some of us live off intensive farming that is destructive in multiple ways in terms of water use, soil depletion, and the simple quantity of resources used to put a steak on a plate, for example. We buy enough clothes to sink a ship, and cotton is also hugely wasteful and destructive as a crop (water use mostly, I think). We "update" our cell phones on a regular basis (well mine is ancient, but most do ). We artificially heat and cool, the list goes on and on and on. When I was in Guatemala, staying with an indigenous family up a mountain, there was almost no rubbish at all because they couldn't really buy much at all in shops for cash because they hardly had any. They did subsistance farming. My backpack contained more stuff than they had, practically. And yet here we are shipping tons and tons of waste to other, poorer countries.

Whatever it's called - climate change or whatever - it seems pretty clear that humans are contributing heavily to the kinds of changes that cause disaster and upheaval. Mass extinctions and a shortage of clean water may be "natural" but it's not a form of nature that's going to do us any good.
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Old Mar 3rd 2020, 9:05 pm
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Default Re: Climate change.

It's a hoax. Invented by the Chinese to make Trump look bad.

Otherwise, everything's great.
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Old Mar 3rd 2020, 9:58 pm
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
It's a hoax. Invented by the Chinese to make Trump look bad.
Otherwise, everything's great.
It's a catastrophe, invented by the damned British when they started the Industrial Revolution.
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Old Mar 3rd 2020, 10:04 pm
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Default Re: Climate change.

This is why we're (as a planet) buggered, those of us in the developed world want to retain our lifestyle, but as Cape says, other developing countries want that same lifestyle which would be disastrous for all of us. So naturally we don't want to send the lift back down. What needs to happen is we need to send the lift back down but with us in it, and explain just how wrong we were, this is why I feel pretty despondent, the solution will require a scale of self-sacrifice that I can't see happening until everyone understands.

Last edited by stevenglish1; Mar 3rd 2020 at 10:06 pm.
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Old Mar 3rd 2020, 11:15 pm
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Default Re: Climate change.

It is a conspiracy to prevent us all using our 4x4's and flying to Australia 3 times a year. Damned Commies !
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Old Mar 4th 2020, 3:41 am
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
the solution will require a scale of self-sacrifice that I can't see happening until everyone understands.
I can't see everyone understanding this, ever. Some learned scientists understand the theory, the rest of us don't understand, or couldn't care less (US: could care less).
There are some interesting dissidents against the climate change theory, mainly my mum who should know better, and Michael Chrichton the author who as I recall wrote a book putting down the theory.
So will individual action really make any difference? Not sure, but I welcome any education and/or action initiatives.


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Old Mar 4th 2020, 3:55 am
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Mostly likely all of those things need addressing. Some parts of the world consume waaaay more than other parts of the world, and as I said on the other thread we are not willing to give all that up. It isn't just how many of us there are, but what we do and how we live. Some of us live off intensive farming that is destructive in multiple ways in terms of water use, soil depletion, and the simple quantity of resources used to put a steak on a plate, for example. We buy enough clothes to sink a ship, and cotton is also hugely wasteful and destructive as a crop (water use mostly, I think). We "update" our cell phones on a regular basis (well mine is ancient, but most do ). We artificially heat and cool, the list goes on and on and on. When I was in Guatemala, staying with an indigenous family up a mountain, there was almost no rubbish at all because they couldn't really buy much at all in shops for cash because they hardly had any. They did subsistance farming. My backpack contained more stuff than they had, practically. And yet here we are shipping tons and tons of waste to other, poorer countries.

Whatever it's called - climate change or whatever - it seems pretty clear that humans are contributing heavily to the kinds of changes that cause disaster and upheaval. Mass extinctions and a shortage of clean water may be "natural" but it's not a form of nature that's going to do us any good.
Yep, and make no mistake the adverse effect we've had on the planet is incalculable even without climate change, and it's all because of our constant need for bigger better and more. We need a time machine to go back and start again. Today is a happy day
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Old Mar 4th 2020, 4:07 am
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by sid nv View Post
I can't see everyone understanding this, ever. Some learned scientists understand the theory, the rest of us don't understand, or couldn't care less (US: could care less).
There are some interesting dissidents against the climate change theory, mainly my mum who should know better, and Michael Chrichton the author who as I recall wrote a book putting down the theory.
So will individual action really make any difference? Not sure, but I welcome any education and/or action initiatives.
I don't necessarily mean understanding climate change as a concept, more understand that it's us and our actions that are buggering up the planet. Individual action may spark others into action but we need world wide co-operation to make a difference. Michael Crichton writes fiction doesn't he?
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Old Mar 4th 2020, 5:06 am
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Default Re: Climate change.

Sounds like we need a virus to wipe out the elderly and the poor.
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Old Mar 4th 2020, 5:17 am
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
Sounds like we need a virus to wipe out the elderly and the poor.
Don't forget the idiots.

https://www.wfla.com/news/by-the-num...s-study-shows/
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Old Mar 4th 2020, 5:23 am
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
So, we need a deadly virus to spread to get rid of some of the poor, the elderly and the idiots.

Perhaps, this disease could be spread by touching plastic. Eradicate a duality of endothermic feathered vertebrates utilizing a singular particle of naturally-occurring crystalline composite.
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Old Mar 4th 2020, 5:46 am
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Default Re: Climate change.

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
So, we need a deadly virus to spread to get rid of some of the poor, the elderly and the idiots.

Perhaps, this disease could be spread by touching plastic. Eradicate a duality of endothermic feathered vertebrates utilizing a singular particle of naturally-occurring crystalline composite.
The answer is obvious - a systemic poison introduced into fast food......
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