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Civil Service

Old May 17th 2022, 4:48 pm
  #46  
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Default Re: Civil Service

Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post
Maybe I have found one motive - the opportunity to retire early, with a pension significantly greater than those who retire much later, on a State pension?
Gone. Current normal pension age for civil servants is 67, rising to 68 in future.
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Old May 17th 2022, 4:51 pm
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Default Re: Civil Service

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
Gone. Current normal pension age for civil servants is 67, rising to 68 in future.
Right, so another disadvantage, to add to the list above. So, why do they do it?

(This answer, relevant prior to Lynn's answer above).
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Old May 17th 2022, 5:00 pm
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Default Re: Civil Service

Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post
Bizarre comparison, military service requires a considerable commitment, way above that required of civil servants, or most others, come to that.

Sure it's a job, but there are others, all, allegedly, considerably more lucrative, according to some responses above.

Maybe I have found one motive - the opportunity to retire early, with a pension significantly greater than those who retire much later, on a State pension?
My brother-in-law worked for HJ Heinz in the UK and wangled early retirement at 49 on ill health grounds (the classic "bad back" which is very hard to prove you don't have although there is really nothing wrong with him), and was paid the same final salary pension as if he had worked until 65 - and this is within the last 10 years, not donkey's years ago. It had become much, much harder for people to retire on ill health grounds in the public sector-

A friend worked for a chemical manufacturing company which was taken over and got a huge redundancy payment plus early payment of his final salary pension which was substantial. He immediately began working as a consultant making more than he had as an employee (and paying his wife a salary which just happened to be equal to the personal tax allowance although she did not actually do any work to earn it, good old accountancy trick that which means an individual can avoid paying tax on 12,570 of their income which public sector employees on PAYE (or anybody else on PAYE for that matter) cannot.
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Old May 17th 2022, 5:04 pm
  #49  
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Default Re: Civil Service

Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post
Right, so another disadvantage, to add to the list above. So, why do they do it?

(This answer, relevant prior to Lynn's answer above).
Relatively congenial work and conditions and (in some cases) a preference for being part of an organisation that provides useful services to the public without primary regard for profits / shareholders etc, I expect. A modicum of security but not the absolute guarantee that's often falsely bandied about. The vague possibility of working with like-minded colleagues. That sort of stuff.

I have a brother who works in the civil service - he was always very envious of my stint of local authority employment. Thought the Ts & Cs much better.
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Old May 17th 2022, 5:10 pm
  #50  
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Default Re: Civil Service

Originally Posted by Lynn R View Post
My brother-in-law worked for HJ Heinz in the UK and wangled early retirement at 49 on ill health grounds (the classic "bad back" which is very hard to prove you don't have although there is really nothing wrong with him), and was paid the same final salary pension as if he had worked until 65 - and this is within the last 10 years, not donkey's years ago. It had become much, much harder for people to retire on ill health grounds in the public sector-

A friend worked for a chemical manufacturing company which was taken over and got a huge redundancy payment plus early payment of his final salary pension which was substantial. He immediately began working as a consultant making more than he had as an employee (and paying his wife a salary which just happened to be equal to the personal tax allowance although she did not actually do any work to earn it, good old accountancy trick that which means an individual can avoid paying tax on 12,570 of their income which public sector employees on PAYE (or anybody else on PAYE for that matter) cannot.
This kind of medical retirement, in the private sector, is incredibly rare.
However, you come very close to proving my point. Why work in the CS if it's so disadvantageous?

Referring back to your personal experience, which I acknowledge, let's not assume that what you describe applies to all private sector organisations.

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Old May 17th 2022, 5:12 pm
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Default Re: Civil Service

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
Relatively congenial work and conditions (yes) and (in some cases) a preference for being part of an organisation that provides useful services to the public without primary regard for profits / shareholders etc, I expect (really?). A modicum of security but not the absolute guarantee that's often falsely bandied about. The vague possibility of working with like-minded colleagues. That sort of stuff.

I have a brother who works in the civil service - he was always very envious of my stint of local authority employment. Thought the Ts & Cs much better.
My bold and italics added.

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Old May 17th 2022, 5:14 pm
  #52  
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Default Re: Civil Service

Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post
No I am not!

I've acknowledged the "downsides"
​​​​​​
That didn't sound 'genuine' though. Apologies if it was.

But I don't understand why "it's a job" isn't good enough. That's not asked of many other jobs.

"What do you want to be when you grow up" is an indication of who gets asked that sort of question. Other than that it's probably only asked of celebrities as in "if you weren't a footballer/po star, what would you be?"

I wanted to be a lumberjack journalist.
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Old May 17th 2022, 5:15 pm
  #53  
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Default Re: Civil Service

Do you consider the Police, Fire Services and the NHS as part of the Civil Service? Or are you really only interested in the people of the acronym bunch? (DWP, HMRC, DCMS etc)
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Old May 17th 2022, 5:24 pm
  #54  
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Default Re: Civil Service

Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post
My bold and italics added.
Yes, really.

Not universally - in the similar environment of local authority work I met plenty of colleagues who despised and criticised the public sector just as vehemently as many a "non-insider". Made me wonder what the hell they were doing there if that was the way they thought. But there were also plenty who were dedicated public servants, I'm glad to say.
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Old May 17th 2022, 5:26 pm
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Default Re: Civil Service

Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post
Referring back to your personal experience, which I acknowledge, let's not assume that what you describe applies to all private sector organisations.
Doesn't seem to be vanishingly rare amongst Tory politicians (most of whom come from the private sector), what with Neil Parish watching porn in the HoC and now a report today that a Tory MP has been arrested and suspended on suspicion of rape, sexual offences, misconduct in public office etc. And this is current stuff not like my experiences of 30-40 years ago.

Last edited by Lynn R; May 17th 2022 at 5:29 pm.
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Old May 17th 2022, 5:28 pm
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Default Re: Civil Service

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
That didn't sound 'genuine' though. Apologies if it was.

But I don't understand why "it's a job" isn't good enough. That's not asked of many other jobs.
Actually it was totally genuine. And coming from a pseudo civil servant (ATC by the way).
"It's ajob" is ok - but there are other, apparently, much more lucrative jobs.



Originally Posted by civilservant View Post
Do you consider the Police, Fire Services and the NHS as part of the Civil Service? Or are you really only interested in the people of the acronym bunch? (DWP, HMRC, DCMS etc)
Good question! Not sure about lumping the Police, Fire devices & NHS together, given, what appear to be, vastly different conditions across those 3 sectors (always appalled me that a previous labour government equated the fire service (for pay purposes) with manual labourers (does that still apply?).

I guess that we are talking about the CS, as per your description.

BTW, I notice that no-one has refuted the comment in my spoiler above.
The only (other) genuine response of interest, so far, was from Lynn R.

Last edited by Expatrick; May 17th 2022 at 5:41 pm.
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Old May 17th 2022, 5:30 pm
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Default Re: Civil Service

Originally Posted by Lynn R View Post
Doesn't seem to be vanishingly rare amongst Tory politicians (most of whom come from the private sector), what with Neil Parish watching porn in the HoC and now a report today that a Tory MP has been arrested and suspended on suspicion of rape, sexual offences, misconduct in public office etc. And this is current stuff not like my experiences of 30-40 years ago.
I don't think that members of the HoC qualify as private sector employees!
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Old May 17th 2022, 5:32 pm
  #58  
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Default Re: Civil Service

Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post
I don't think that members of the HoC qualify as private sector employees!
I said that most Tory MPs come FROM the private sector - Neil Parish, for example, is a farmer.
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Old May 17th 2022, 5:33 pm
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Default Re: Civil Service

Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post
Actually it was totally genuine. And coming from s pseudo civil servant (ATC by the way).
"It's ajob" is ok - but there are other, apparently, much more lucrative jobs.





Good question! Not sure about lumping the Police, Fire devices & NHS together, given, what appear to be, vastly different conditions across those 3 sectors (always appalled me that a previous labour government equated the fire service (for pay purposes) with manual labourers (does that still apply?).

I guess that we are talking about the CS, as per your description.

BTW, I notice that no-one has refuted the comment in my spoiler above.
The only (other) genuine response of interest, so far, was from Lynn R.
That was appalled by the way, not appealed! Bl**dy auto correct!
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Old May 17th 2022, 5:34 pm
  #60  
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Default Re: Civil Service

Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post
I don't think that members of the HoC qualify as private sector employees!
Jacob Rees-Mogg does.

So do a whole host of others. Being an MP is just a sideline for a lot of them. They can get loads more at the same time from elsewhere.
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