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Civil Service

Old May 17th 2022, 12:29 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: Civil Service

I don't really see you point Scamp. Should Civil Servants feel bad about earning an average salary for some reason? No you are not talking about minimum wage, but most could likely earn more in the commercial world.

They do not deserve to always be treated as a horse to beat with the Governments stick.
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Old May 17th 2022, 1:04 pm
  #17  
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Default Re: Civil Service

Originally Posted by civilservant View Post
I don't really see you point Scamp. Should Civil Servants feel bad about earning an average salary for some reason? No you are not talking about minimum wage, but most could likely earn more in the commercial world.

They do not deserve to always be treated as a horse to beat with the Governments stick.
My point is that people always say the pension offsets the lower earnings, but it was then said on here it doesn't make up for it.

Realistically, it does. It's basically a job for life and a superb pension. To work at less than 10% below national average (on average) but gains including the pension, security and other benefits, I think it's not a bad life, no?
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Old May 17th 2022, 1:26 pm
  #18  
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Default Re: Civil Service

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
It's basically a job for life and a superb pension.
Oh Scamp, you are such a wag.
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Old May 17th 2022, 1:54 pm
  #19  
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Default Re: Civil Service

I've never understood the "superb persion" thing. It seems to me as though teachers, doctors and nurses, policemen and firemen etc. as well as the generic sitcom-stereotype civil servants are always complaining about their pay and how it's impossible to live on it. What's the great twist of logic that makes people think that then living on half of it is suddenly a life of luxury?

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Old May 17th 2022, 2:45 pm
  #20  
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Default Re: Civil Service

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Just a reminder that a final salary pension scheme for someone on a low salary results in a lower pension than one from a higher salary.
Can't be that bad, judging by the number of willing volunteers (& frequent surpluses).
Beats fruit picking!
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Old May 17th 2022, 2:56 pm
  #21  
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Default Re: Civil Service

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
My point is that people always say the pension offsets the lower earnings, but it was then said on here it doesn't make up for it.

Realistically, it does. It's basically a job for life and a superb pension. To work at less than 10% below national average (on average) but gains including the pension, security and other benefits, I think it's not a bad life, no?
The inflation linked aspect of the pension not the pension itself was supposed to be a kind of compensation for low pay and supposed "job for life" but the job for life has been a thing of the past for over 30 years.

In my day the pension was always reported to be non contributory but the fact was when it was decided what level of pay was appropriate that amount was reduced by 6% - that being the sort of figure that would get a comparable pension - so in effect we did pay for it.
Of course the knock on effect of that was a further reduction in the value of the pension because the "final salary" used in the calculation was artificially lowered. And that's ignoring that our pay was always 15-22% behind what comparable jobs got "last year". The government got so fed up of pay comparison showing how far behind we were, they abolished pay comparison.

The biggest government employer is the DWP. A third of those staff earn between £16k and £21k.

It seems to me that you are comparing upper levels of the civil service rather than most.

This is a BBC report from 2011.
Claim. The PCS union says the average annual pension paid to retired civil servants is £4,200. It says more than 100,000 people receive less than £2,000 and 40,000 get less than £1,000.
FACT CHECK: All these figures should be treated with some caution. The PCS admits its figure excludes the highest earners.
Well of course it does. The PCS is the biggest civil service union because it represents the more typical civil servant and not the elite. PCS does not represent the higher paid.

That £21k salary now was £17k in 2011 so those figures above could probably be updated to an average pension of £5200 for the non elite civil servant.
I retired in the next grade up. Mine's £6200. Apparently I'm elite.

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Old May 17th 2022, 3:00 pm
  #22  
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Default Re: Civil Service

Ah PCS. I was Branch Secretary and later Vice Chair of our local chapter while in the CS.

I too think the 'Job For Life' mantra has been gone for years. I watched several parts of the department that I worked in TUPEd out over the course of just a few years.
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Old May 17th 2022, 3:03 pm
  #23  
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Default Re: Civil Service

And... I've never got over the fact that a civil service pension scheme arranged for the public to pick up the bill to ensure that whereas my state pension was frozen when I arrived in Canada, those members of this civil service scheme supplement the state pension to avoid it being frozen.
They know how to look after themselves, after all they turn the dials and flick the switches.
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Old May 17th 2022, 3:17 pm
  #24  
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Default Re: Civil Service

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
And... I've never got over the fact that a civil service pension scheme arranged for the public to pick up the bill to ensure that whereas my state pension was frozen when I arrived in Canada, those members of this civil service scheme supplement the state pension to avoid it being frozen.
They know how to look after themselves, after all they turn the dials and flick the switches.
Eh? Is that a lie or just a mistake?

I'm sure you well know that paying for missing years is available to all and does not unfreeze a frozen pension in Canada.
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Old May 17th 2022, 3:54 pm
  #25  
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Default Re: Civil Service

Agree that the so called "job for life" hasn't existed for at least the last 20 years. In the last two jobs I had in the UK in the six years up until I left in 2006 (working for what used to be called Quangos and in the Civil Service Pension Scheme) the organisations I worked for were merged with others. Existing staff had to apply for jobs in the new organisation and there were substantially fewer posts available than in the bodies which had been subsumed into the new one, so those whose applications were unsuccessful were out of a job (and the redundancy conditions were not very attractive). JRM's gleeful announcement of reducing Civil Service numbers by 90,000 only last week also gives the lie to any notion of security or "jobs for life".

As for final salary pensions, even before I left the original pension benefits of what became known as the Classic scheme had been watered down in at least two new versions of the Scheme and there have been four newer versions introduced, each one with less favourable benefits, since that time. The latest one was found to be discriminatory following a legal challenge and as a result a mechanism called Remedy had to be introduced to identify those staff who had been treated unlawfully. It is now a career average scheme (for service after a certain date) not a final salary one and contributions are a lot higher than they used to be.

My Civil Service pension has now reached the dizzy heights of 2.2k per year.
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Old May 17th 2022, 3:55 pm
  #26  
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Default Re: Civil Service

Ok, so we've established they don't do it for

The salary
Job security
The pension

So why do they all join up?

The possibility of an MBE? - remote surely?
Love of Queen & Country - possible, in a minority.

Or is there another reason?
Spoiler:
Such as, maybe, they're not equipped / qualified for anything more lucrative.


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Old May 17th 2022, 4:01 pm
  #27  
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Default Re: Civil Service

Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post
So why do they all join up?
It's a job.


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Old May 17th 2022, 4:02 pm
  #28  
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Well i was on 29k GBP as a Civil Servant in the UK when I left in 2013 and now make well over $100k with no additional education since I left the Civil Service.... so make of that what you will.
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Old May 17th 2022, 4:03 pm
  #29  
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Default Re: Civil Service

Honestly, the prejudice that some have for the civil service is incredibly similar to other prejudices that have 'names' for it.
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Old May 17th 2022, 4:04 pm
  #30  
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Default Re: Civil Service

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Honestly, the prejudice that some have for the civil service is incredibly similar to other prejudices that have 'names' for it.
No it's not, that's ridiculous.
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