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Call to Prayer

Call to Prayer

Old Oct 12th 2011, 8:10 pm
  #46  
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Default Re: Call to Prayer

Originally Posted by Norm_uk View Post
Pascal's wager all over again...bit of a old argument that's long since been disproven.

What if you're correct but it's the Koran but the Bible or the Torah that is correct? What if the 12 Olympians are actually god not Allah? How can you be so sure you have the right system?

N.
I like the “what-if” element in your statement; it is showing signs of some wisdom and intelligence, perhaps not refined enough to solve a 3x3x3 Rubik's cube under 1min though.

Personally, I feel assured in my belief and it’s comforting to know that I have not descended from a common ancestry of Gentoo Penguin, Mauz (bananas), Jasmine, and Scottish Salmon (perhaps, more accurately hammour in my case).

If you ever change your stance and are genuinely interested than I would be happy to offer some assistance to enlighten you with regards to faith, this may eradicate some of the ‘What-Ifs’.

Last edited by sherri; Oct 12th 2011 at 8:14 pm.
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Old Oct 12th 2011, 10:11 pm
  #47  
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Default Re: Call to Prayer

Originally Posted by khitan004 View Post
I seek the truth, I refuse to be given it.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use." -- Galileo Galilei
I am agree with these

If we use them our sense, reason etc... we can not believe that we came in this life by a coincidence .. look at your self you are made from semen your heart , brain , feelings , etc .. is this a coincidence dont you think it is a miracle ?? that is just an example but every thing in this life told you that there is a great creator not 2 or 3 or 12 .if you build this strong base , then you have to search which of his books i should follow ?? and that is something you should be in your own when search about it .and if you seek for the truth God will help you .


Allah says in Quran ( “And I (Allaah) created not the jinn and mankind except that they should worship Me (Alone)”. [al-Dhaariyaat 51:56] "translated"

Last edited by Fahd; Oct 12th 2011 at 10:33 pm.
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Old Oct 13th 2011, 4:28 am
  #48  
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Default Re: Call to Prayer

Originally Posted by sherri View Post
I like the “what-if” element in your statement; it is showing signs of some wisdom and intelligence, perhaps not refined enough to solve a 3x3x3 Rubik's cube under 1min though.

Personally, I feel assured in my belief and it’s comforting to know that I have not descended from a common ancestry of Gentoo Penguin, Mauz (bananas), Jasmine, and Scottish Salmon (perhaps, more accurately hammour in my case).

If you ever change your stance and are genuinely interested than I would be happy to offer some assistance to enlighten you with regards to faith, this may eradicate some of the ‘What-Ifs’.
Being vaguely condescending about my intelligence doesn't suit you, and solving a rubiks cube is not useful in debates.

Having faith means you are able to believe in something in spite of the evidence for or against it. As someone who was definitely wiser than both us put it "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not
prove anything."

I find it tragically amusing when science get's it 100% right when you want a computer, anti-lock breaks, a mobile phone, a flight to Paris etc. Even funnier is how medical science gets in right when you need to treat your erectile disfunction, bacterial infections or prevent viruses from eradicating whole areas. But when the same scientists, using the exact same scientific method you take advantage of all day state the variety of life on earth can be explained via evolution through national selection...they are wrong. In this particular case alone a Bronze Age creation myth happens to answer the question of life on earth far better...

N.
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Old Oct 13th 2011, 4:29 am
  #49  
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Default Re: Call to Prayer

Originally Posted by seven seas View Post
The loophole is that the deity is forgiving enough to accept that nobody convinced you so you can't be punished for that kind of mistake.

Kinda like having to have your competition entries and tax returns postmarked by a certain date- that means you're safe.
Forgiving or in at least one case you can earn good points to counteract the bad stuff you do in life so you'll get your doe-eyed youths in paradise...

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Old Oct 13th 2011, 4:40 am
  #50  
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Default Re: Call to Prayer

Originally Posted by Fahd View Post
I am agree with these

If we use them our sense, reason etc... we can not believe that we came in this life by a coincidence .. look at your self you are made from semen your heart , brain , feelings , etc .. is this a coincidence dont you think it is a miracle ?? that is just an example but every thing in this life told you that there is a great creator not 2 or 3 or 12 .if you build this strong base , then you have to search which of his books i should follow ?? and that is something you should be in your own when search about it .and if you seek for the truth God will help you .


Allah says in Quran ( “And I (Allaah) created not the jinn and mankind except that they should worship Me (Alone)”. [al-Dhaariyaat 51:56] "translated"
Didn't do a very good job creating humans since most don't worship him and never have done - our species it at least 100,000 years old. Why did this god wait for 90+ thousand years and watch our ancestors suffer untold horrors from being prey to larger animals and dying on average at around 30 mostly due to our rotting teeth and associated sickness?

And why did this god choose an illiterate merchant from the desert to be his messenger when he could have chosen literate and educated and civillised men from places like China, Persia or Greece - who would probably have not kicked started this religion with the conquest of half the known world and a third of Christendom?

Also, what kind of "divine dictator makes intelligent beings solely to worship it? A heavenly Kim Jong-il? Is that what this is about, living in some kind of celestial North Korea? Is that all mankind is good for? Slavery?

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Old Oct 13th 2011, 4:51 am
  #51  
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Default Re: Call to Prayer

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Old Oct 13th 2011, 5:13 am
  #52  
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Default Re: Call to Prayer

Originally Posted by sherri View Post
I like the “what-if” element in your statement; it is showing signs of some wisdom and intelligence, perhaps not refined enough to solve a 3x3x3 Rubik's cube under 1min though.

Personally, I feel assured in my belief and it’s comforting to know that I have not descended from a common ancestry of Gentoo Penguin, Mauz (bananas), Jasmine, and Scottish Salmon (perhaps, more accurately hammour in my case).

If you ever change your stance and are genuinely interested than I would be happy to offer some assistance to enlighten you with regards to faith, this may eradicate some of the ‘What-Ifs’.
It may well be a comforting belief but it's entirely fallacious. That's the problem with faith, it's a blind adherence regardless of any weight of evidence or application of thought
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Old Oct 13th 2011, 5:23 am
  #53  
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Default Re: Call to Prayer

Originally Posted by shiva View Post
...That's the problem with faith, it's a blind adherence regardless of any weight of evidence or application of thought
A bit like supporting Arsenal, then.
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Old Oct 13th 2011, 5:40 am
  #54  
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Default Re: Call to Prayer

Originally Posted by sherri View Post
I like the “what-if” element in your statement; it is showing signs of some wisdom and intelligence, perhaps not refined enough to solve a 3x3x3 Rubik's cube under 1min though.

Personally, I feel assured in my belief and it’s comforting to know that I have not descended from a common ancestry of Gentoo Penguin, Mauz (bananas), Jasmine, and Scottish Salmon (perhaps, more accurately hammour in my case).

If you ever change your stance and are genuinely interested than I would be happy to offer some assistance to enlighten you with regards to faith, this may eradicate some of the ‘What-Ifs’.
Ok, I'm interested - what brought you to religion? Were you raised with it or did you branch left into it following an epiphany of some kind. Religion was in my family home and I went to Sunday school etc which was all very nice but we were also taught to have our own opinions. I like the Dawkins view - "great claims require great proofs." Just saying "I have faith" means nothing at all really.....

Interesting, ultimately pointless, debate....
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Old Oct 13th 2011, 7:39 pm
  #55  
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Default Re: Call to Prayer

Certain religions (no names mentioned) do not condone questioning faith and having your own opinions. It's all about cattle mentality - follow the herd...

If the religion is strong surely it can win over those who dare to question or have doubts. Historically religion was just an effective way of controlling the masses anyway. My opinion is that religion has run its course and will gradually disappear (or at least become less relevant)..
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Old Oct 13th 2011, 8:34 pm
  #56  
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Default Re: Call to Prayer

its only a matter of time before FSM wins

http://www.venganza.org/about/
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Old Oct 13th 2011, 10:15 pm
  #57  
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Default Re: Call to Prayer

a good link to explore more about "Alsalah" or prayer .I must say it is not perfect article but it is a good beginning .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salah#T..._daily_prayers




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Old Oct 14th 2011, 4:18 pm
  #58  
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Default Re: Call to Prayer

Originally Posted by Fahd View Post
try to answer it .
If you were in a "Christian country" and heard church bells on a Saunday would you "try to answer" them?
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Old Oct 15th 2011, 2:38 am
  #59  
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Default Re: Call to Prayer

Originally Posted by Norm_uk View Post
Being vaguely condescending about my intelligence doesn't suit you, and solving a rubiks cube is not useful in debates.

Having faith means you are able to believe in something in spite of the evidence for or against it. As someone who was definitely wiser than both us put it "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not
prove anything."

I find it tragically amusing when science get's it 100% right when you want a computer, anti-lock breaks, a mobile phone, a flight to Paris etc. Even funnier is how medical science gets in right when you need to treat your erectile disfunction, bacterial infections or prevent viruses from eradicating whole areas. But when the same scientists, using the exact same scientific method you take advantage of all day state the variety of life on earth can be explained via evolution through national selection...they are wrong. In this particular case alone a Bronze Age creation myth happens to answer the question of life on earth far better...

N.
I love this.
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Old Oct 15th 2011, 4:48 am
  #60  
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Default Re: Call to Prayer

Originally Posted by Kiwilass View Post
I love this.
+1
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