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Brexit changes

Brexit changes

Old Jan 4th 2021, 7:50 am
  #76  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

It's gone so wrong and become so ingrained that many people no longer regard it as abnormal to have politicians and other public figures speaking in that manner.
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Old Jan 4th 2021, 8:26 am
  #77  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
More drivel. Losing the referendum appears to remoaners be when Britain 'lost democracy'. Utter drivel. Parliament had its say many times as the courts and the law of the land. There is nothing wrong with public discourse either. Remoaners make that point quite strongly; they haven't stopped carping since losing the referendum.
Do you really think that leavers would have remained silent if they had lost?
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Old Jan 4th 2021, 8:40 am
  #78  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by mikelincs View Post
Do you really think that leavers would have remained silent if they had lost?
The question of a second referendum was raised by Mr Farage in an interview with the Mirror in which he said: "In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics...endum-36306681

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Old Jan 4th 2021, 9:45 am
  #79  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
More drivel. Losing the referendum appears to remoaners be when Britain 'lost democracy'. Utter drivel. Parliament had its say many times as the courts and the law of the land. There is nothing wrong with public discourse either. Remoaners make that point quite strongly; they haven't stopped carping since losing the referendum.
What would have been un-democratic about holding a second referendum ? There had been more debate, and more information by then available.


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Old Jan 4th 2021, 11:26 am
  #80  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
What would have been un-democratic about holding a second referendum ? There had been more debate, and more information by then available.
Forgive the man with four letters.. Democracy for Brexiters is flexible depending on whether it supports their version of events or claims......
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Old Jan 4th 2021, 1:01 pm
  #81  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Just seen a comment from someone who has regularly sent stuff to the EU, cost was around £30, their latest invoice for the same item is £165 to £170 depending on service.
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Old Jan 4th 2021, 1:22 pm
  #82  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

The Uk Government wasnt ready for Brexit.. The embassy in Rome posted the list of necessary documents for UK citizens resident in Italy to reenter the country only on 31 December. . Not much notice for anyone returning after Xmas.
Along with a passport you need a utility bill, an Id card or a certificate of residence. Not things people always carry around.

Last edited by philat98; Jan 4th 2021 at 1:25 pm.
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Old Jan 4th 2021, 1:56 pm
  #83  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by philat98 View Post
The Uk Government wasnt ready for Brexit.. The embassy in Rome posted the list of necessary documents for UK citizens resident in Italy to reenter the country only on 31 December. . Not much notice for anyone returning after Xmas.
Along with a passport you need a utility bill, an Id card or a certificate of residence. Not things people always carry around.
Given the length of time this has been looming, and what has long been published about changes to border controls, I'm actually quite surprised that anyone registered as resident would leave the country knowing they wouldn't be returning until on or after 1st Jan without their residence document in their possession.

That hasn't been proof against some very regrettable incidents with regard to residents of Spain, but that's another matter.
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Old Jan 4th 2021, 3:15 pm
  #84  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
We've been over this ground before many times.
A question was put to the UK electorate and a result obtained.
Subsequent UK governments have decided to execute that result.
Now many who disagreed with the result have argued that false and misleading information contributed to the result and this may be true but UK governments have judged that it was in the interest of governance not to gainsay the referendum result itself.
Others have argued that the referendum was advisory and should have been ignored and have suggested that to follow the result was wrong, and that in economic terms this was the wrong decision, and you may be correct. From the viewpoint of the government the question was undoubtedly whether more damage, not just economic but in terms of governance, would be done by effectively disenfranchising those who voted to leave than would be the case in executing their wishes.
I'm not dismissing other arguments that the government of the day found itself under pressure from various pressure groups demanding a Brexit outcome and indeed may have desired it itself, but underlying all these different issues was the referendum result itself.
But in answer to your question.
I suppose the point of Brexit, when you strip out all emotional factors, boiled down to this. Do we have a democratic system of government or don't we?
Dave_J I must congratulate you on your ability to write some 250 words and say absolutely nothing.

I asked you what the point of Brexit was, and you tell me that the point of Brexit was to carry out the result of a referendum on Brexit.

It seems for all your talk of opportunities, you cannot think of a single one of them and have instead opted to argue for Brexit for Brexit's sake.





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Old Jan 4th 2021, 3:20 pm
  #85  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by GeneralPowerpoint View Post
Dave_J I must congratulate you on your ability to write some 250 words and say absolutely nothing.

I asked you what the point of Brexit was, and you tell me that the point of Brexit was to carry out the result of a referendum on Brexit.

It seems for all your talk of opportunities, you cannot think of a single one of them and have instead opted to argue for Brexit for Brexit's sake.
Poor Dave is stuck in referendum time.
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Old Jan 4th 2021, 3:49 pm
  #86  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by GeneralPowerpoint View Post
Dave_J I must congratulate you on your ability to write some 250 words and say absolutely nothing.
I asked you what the point of Brexit was, and you tell me that the point of Brexit was to carry out the result of a referendum on Brexit.
It seems for all your talk of opportunities, you cannot think of a single one of them and have instead opted to argue for Brexit for Brexit's sake.
You asked the question and I took the trouble to answer.
Don't bother to ask another.
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Old Jan 4th 2021, 6:59 pm
  #87  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by GeneralPowerpoint View Post
Dave_J I must congratulate you on your ability to write some 250 words and say absolutely nothing.

I asked you what the point of Brexit was, and you tell me that the point of Brexit was to carry out the result of a referendum on Brexit.

It seems for all your talk of opportunities, you cannot think of a single one of them and have instead opted to argue for Brexit for Brexit's sake.
Brexit means Brexit means Brexit means Brexit.....

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
Poor Dave is stuck in referendum time.
Not all of us.....

Narrator:
It's just a jump to the left
All:
And then a step to the right
Narrator:
With your hands on your hips
All:
You bring your knees in tight
But it's the pelvic thrust
That really drives you insane
Let's do the time-warp again
Let's do the time-warp again

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
You asked the question and I took the trouble to answer.
Don't bother to ask another.
And the answer bore no relation to the question.
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Old Jan 5th 2021, 6:09 am
  #88  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
What would have been un-democratic about holding a second referendum ? There had been more debate, and more information by then available.
To answer your question: It can't be undemocratic to have another referendum. More to the point though is how many referendums do you think should be held? Weekly, monthly or annually? Yes more information comes to light and will continue to do so ad infinitum but just when do you accept a referendum result; when it suits your argument? The grown up way is to hold a vote, give the facts at the time and then abide by the result.
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Old Jan 5th 2021, 6:51 am
  #89  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
To answer your question: It can't be undemocratic to have another referendum. More to the point though is how many referendums do you think should be held? Weekly, monthly or annually? Yes more information comes to light and will continue to do so ad infinitum but just when do you accept a referendum result; when it suits your argument? The grown up way is to hold a vote, give the facts at the time and then abide by the result.
Yes, a point well put.
But why stop at referenda?
Why not extend the principle to general elections?
Personally I'd like to choose from a best out of three, and if that doesn't work I'd suggest a decision based on a penalty shootout.
We could then argue forever about the shape of the ball, the weather, the influence of little green men from Mars, in fact anything that provides a reason for voting again.



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Old Jan 5th 2021, 8:05 am
  #90  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
To answer your question: It can't be undemocratic to have another referendum. More to the point though is how many referendums do you think should be held? Weekly, monthly or annually? Yes more information comes to light and will continue to do so ad infinitum but just when do you accept a referendum result; when it suits your argument?
When the circumstances have materially changed, would seem to be a reasonable basis.

So, for example, when offering a vision as an alternative to a reality, having got to the point where you're about to deliver on that, you could, in a grown-up democracy, allow the public decide whether what's on offer matches the originally-proffered fantasy or is otherwise acceptable to them, or whether they reject that in favour of keeping the status quo.

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
The grown up way is to hold a vote, give the facts at the time and then abide by the result.
The grown up way is not to spread distortions, half-truths and outright lies about or to engage in populist tub-thumping to rouse emotions and generate panic as a means to getting your way.

Results obtained by deception or coercion are, needless to say, unpopular and unlikely to be regarded as acceptable over the long term.
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