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Brexit changes

Brexit changes

Old Jan 3rd 2021, 1:07 pm
  #61  
 
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
It all looks like a very good case for substantially more bureaucracy.
They'll be needing more red tape. There's a boom for British jobs right there.
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Old Jan 3rd 2021, 1:11 pm
  #62  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
They'll be needing more red tape. There's a boom for British jobs right there.
The government couldn't recruit and train enough new Customs officers in four and a half years. Nor enough fruit and veg pickers... .
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Old Jan 3rd 2021, 4:41 pm
  #63  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
Ahhhh the ability to cherry pick phrases from a post in the hope that few notice.
Had you the integrity to comment on the post as written, you'd have mentioned that my post commented on the situation post Brexit and therefore can have had no influence on the initial vote, but of course that would have blunted the barb of your post.
I'll repeat my comment.
For those still residing in the UK, there'll be a great many for whom the impact of Brexit will feel like a damp french croissant lying unwanted in an Intermarché garbage bin, that is to say having no impact at all.
For others though, exposed as they are to the rarefied atmosphere of international business, Brexit represents that rare opportunity, akin to the one that I should have recognised all those years ago when I witnessed the birth of the microprocessor, an opportunity to use your experience to clean up.
Oh I'm not cherry picking anything. Perhaps you haven't realised that what takes you a couple of paragraphs to attempt to articulate can usually be summed up in a sentence.

For those still residing in the UK, there'll be a great many for whom the impact of Brexit will feel like a damp french croissant lying unwanted in an Intermarché garbage bin, that is to say having no impact at all.
In which case, I repeat my question. What was the point in Brexit if it'll have no impact at all on most people residing in the UK?

Wasn't Brexit supposed to improve things for them? Or have you given up on that argument now?
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Old Jan 3rd 2021, 5:23 pm
  #64  
 
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Hey, I've found one of those brexit benefits we were looking for earlier. Good old sovereignty.

"The UK’s new trade agreement with Turkey, signed last week, ignores the Turkish government’s continuing human rights abuses, boosts its dangerous president, and undermines ministerial pledges that “global Britain” will uphold international laws and values. The deal took effect on 1 January without even rudimentary parliamentary scrutiny. Here, stripped of lies and bombast, is the dawning reality of Boris Johnson’s scruple-free post-Brexit world...

... Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, Turkey’s “strongman” leader, is pleased as punch. He’s the new, biggest fan of Britain’s international trade secretary, Liz Truss, whose shabby work this is. Erdoğan hailed the deal as the start of a “new era” and a landmark for Turkey...

...The fact that Johnson used the spectre of Turkish migrants to frighten Leave voters in 2016 appears forgotten now. His government has created a favourable bilateral trade framework, and promised bespoke “upgrades”, to a leader who frequently mocks the EU and
faces possible European trade sanctions. How does that square with Johnson’s vow to be “the best friend and ally the EU could have”? The level playing field is already tipping...

...
The Turkey deal illustrates a bigger, fundamental hypocrisy. Extolling a future “global Britain” in 2019, foreign secretary Dominic Raab promised that “once we’ve left the EU … human rights abusers anywhere in the world will face consequences for their actions”. In January 2020, Raab assured the Commons that “a truly global Britain is about more than just international trade and investment … Global Britain is also about continuing to uphold our values of liberal democracy and our heartfelt commitment to the international rule of law.”Raab seems to mean well, but ne’er-do-wells such as Erdoğan are laughing fit to burst."

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...box=1609667760

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Old Jan 3rd 2021, 5:34 pm
  #65  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Where's Bipat? She's got massive concerns about making agreements with human rights abusers and was hugely relieved the UK was no longer part of the EU on account of it.
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Old Jan 3rd 2021, 5:39 pm
  #66  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Brexit changes :

Companies charging more or stopping sales to the UK as a result of Brexit



Buy British is the Brexiteer solution

Thanks to Edwin Hayward !
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Old Jan 3rd 2021, 6:47 pm
  #67  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by GeneralPowerpoint View Post
In which case, I repeat my question. What was the point in Brexit if it'll have no impact at all on most people residing in the UK?
We've been over this ground before many times.
A question was put to the UK electorate and a result obtained.
Subsequent UK governments have decided to execute that result.
Now many who disagreed with the result have argued that false and misleading information contributed to the result and this may be true but UK governments have judged that it was in the interest of governance not to gainsay the referendum result itself.
Others have argued that the referendum was advisory and should have been ignored and have suggested that to follow the result was wrong, and that in economic terms this was the wrong decision, and you may be correct. From the viewpoint of the government the question was undoubtedly whether more damage, not just economic but in terms of governance, would be done by effectively disenfranchising those who voted to leave than would be the case in executing their wishes.
I'm not dismissing other arguments that the government of the day found itself under pressure from various pressure groups demanding a Brexit outcome and indeed may have desired it itself, but underlying all these different issues was the referendum result itself.
But in answer to your question.
I suppose the point of Brexit, when you strip out all emotional factors, boiled down to this. Do we have a democratic system of government or don't we?


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Old Jan 3rd 2021, 7:12 pm
  #68  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Hey, I've found one of those brexit benefits we were looking for earlier. Good old sovereignty.

"The UK’s new trade agreement with Turkey, signed last week, ignores the Turkish government’s continuing human rights abuses, boosts its dangerous president, and undermines ministerial pledges that “global Britain” will uphold international laws and values. The deal took effect on 1 January without even rudimentary parliamentary scrutiny. Here, stripped of lies and bombast, is the dawning reality of Boris Johnson’s scruple-free post-Brexit world...

... Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, Turkey’s “strongman” leader, is pleased as punch. He’s the new, biggest fan of Britain’s international trade secretary, Liz Truss, whose shabby work this is. Erdoğan hailed the deal as the start of a “new era” and a landmark for Turkey...

...The fact that Johnson used the spectre of Turkish migrants to frighten Leave voters in 2016 appears forgotten now. His government has created a favourable bilateral trade framework, and promised bespoke “upgrades”, to a leader who frequently mocks the EU and
faces possible European trade sanctions. How does that square with Johnson’s vow to be “the best friend and ally the EU could have”? The level playing field is already tipping...

...
The Turkey deal illustrates a bigger, fundamental hypocrisy. Extolling a future “global Britain” in 2019, foreign secretary Dominic Raab promised that “once we’ve left the EU … human rights abusers anywhere in the world will face consequences for their actions”. In January 2020, Raab assured the Commons that “a truly global Britain is about more than just international trade and investment … Global Britain is also about continuing to uphold our values of liberal democracy and our heartfelt commitment to the international rule of law.”Raab seems to mean well, but ne’er-do-wells such as Erdoğan are laughing fit to burst."

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...box=1609667760
Very informative and illustrate my biggest worry in the short term about Brexit the calibre of Brexit leadership in power.

So the UK rolled over a trade deal. So certainly not evidence trade deals are either always beneficial, or ones the UK will sign will better that being in the EU.It is interesting all the newspaper reports generally tend to refer to overall trade- I would have thought key elements would be the balance of trade and the balance of payments- and what effect a trade deal would be on the various components. Just saying a trade deal is necessarily a net benefit is quite a fantasy- and for every roll-over deal there is less and less reason to believe Brexiter fantasies about global Britain signing trade deals that would be a net benefit compared to remaining in the EU.
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Old Jan 3rd 2021, 7:21 pm
  #69  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
We've been over this ground before many times.
A question was put to the UK electorate and a result obtained.
Subsequent UK governments have decided to execute that result.
Now many who disagreed with the result have argued that false and misleading information contributed to the result and this may be true but UK governments have judged that it was in the interest of governance not to gainsay the referendum result itself.
Others have argued that the referendum was advisory and should have been ignored and have suggested that to follow the result was wrong, and that in economic terms this was the wrong decision, and you may be correct. From the viewpoint of the government the question was undoubtedly whether more damage, not just economic but in terms of governance, would be done by effectively disenfranchising those who voted to leave than would be the case in executing their wishes.
I'm not dismissing other arguments that the government of the day found itself under pressure from various pressure groups demanding a Brexit outcome and indeed may have desired it itself, but underlying all these different issues was the referendum result itself.
But in answer to your question.
I suppose the point of Brexit, when you strip out all emotional factors, boiled down to this. Do we have a democratic system of government or don't we?
Some had suggested a second referendum which seemed appropriate as the lies and propaganda of Leave leaders had become more obvious. Breiters of course feared a second referendum.

We live in a representative democracy and while I see your point, certainly our leaders had a moral responsibility to do what was best for the country- a second referendum either would have confirmed the original or overturned it- either result would have reduced some of the division. And the same people who put us in this mess are running the government.
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Old Jan 3rd 2021, 7:34 pm
  #70  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

The last general election was essentially a 2nd referendum as all parties had their stance on what to do with brexit. Well, labour kind of had a stance! Boris got elected on a get Brexit done slogan and hes certainly done that. Regarding free trade deal these take years to conclude so it was only right we concentrated on the deal with our main trading partner and completely made sense to roll over existing deals whilst Truss gets on with the next biggest hitter now

Last edited by Timmy Chch; Jan 3rd 2021 at 7:37 pm.
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Old Jan 3rd 2021, 7:53 pm
  #71  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by Timmy Chch View Post
The last general election was essentially a 2nd referendum...
Yes. The Conservative slogan was very much "get Brexit done" so you'll not get much disagreement.
The interesting aspect to this is that fewer people voted for the 'get brexit done' campaign than voted to leave in the referendum.

Is it possible support for leaving had dwindled?
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Old Jan 3rd 2021, 8:01 pm
  #72  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
I suppose the point of Brexit, when you strip out all emotional factors, boiled down to this. Do we have a democratic system of government or don't we?
We do not.

We lost what there was of that around the time of the referendum, when successive governments have sought to reduce the influence of Parliament and have concentrated power into the hands of a very few. A state of affairs which has worsened under the current leadership.

And apart from that, of course, there's something dreadfully wrong with the state of public discourse in the UK today and what is considered acceptable in terms of government communicating with the electorate, which is also undemocratic bacause of its deep dishonesty and unashamed appeals to emotions and base instincts.
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Old Jan 3rd 2021, 8:14 pm
  #73  
 
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
We do not.

We lost what there was of that around the time of the referendum, when successive governments have sought to reduce the influence of Parliament and have concentrated power into the hands of a very few. A state of affairs which has worsened under the current leadership.

And apart from that, of course, there's something dreadfully wrong with the state of public discourse in the UK today and what is considered acceptable in terms of government communicating with the electorate, which is also undemocratic bacause of its deep dishonesty and unashamed appeals to emotions and base instincts.
+1
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Old Jan 3rd 2021, 8:37 pm
  #74  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

The thread theme tune...

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Old Jan 4th 2021, 4:06 am
  #75  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
We do not.

We lost what there was of that around the time of the referendum, when successive governments have sought to reduce the influence of Parliament and have concentrated power into the hands of a very few. A state of affairs which has worsened under the current leadership.

And apart from that, of course, there's something dreadfully wrong with the state of public discourse in the UK today and what is considered acceptable in terms of government communicating with the electorate, which is also undemocratic bacause of its deep dishonesty and unashamed appeals to emotions and base instincts.
More drivel. Losing the referendum appears to remoaners be when Britain 'lost democracy'. Utter drivel. Parliament had its say many times as the courts and the law of the land. There is nothing wrong with public discourse either. Remoaners make that point quite strongly; they haven't stopped carping since losing the referendum.
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