Assanah

I think that this kind of post is the most pathetic. You won yet still you have to insult those you have lost. If you want a strong united country let them grief and show some respect.

Lion in Winter

Have you considered living offshore?

Oh, wait...

Lion in Winter

The same people who got rich before will continue to do so.

The rest of us will continue to get crumbs and a lot of hot air telling us how well "the country" is doing. The Tories have been written a ticket for at least another four years of running the country for their mates, and quite possibly longer unless better opposition emerges.

It's our internal government that needed and still needs changing. Fundamentally.

jimenato

mikelincs

Pne of the biggest problems is the winning, there are leavers all over the UK who still will not believe they won because the Brexit agreed is not THEIR Brexit, it either goes to far, or not far enough, and that, I'm afraid, is down to Cameron and to the wording of the referendum, it was so woolly and insubstantial in the information given that, had a clearer explanation of the pros and cons been given by the government the vote would, probably, have been different.

DaveLovesDee

Short-term, I think things will get worse until people understand the practicalities of the changes and learn to adapt. That will apply to both businesses and travellers.

Longer-term, there's going to be a number of changes in what is shipped across the Channel in both directions, and not just by ferry. The increased paperwork and time to process is going to lead to more delays.

The vote to leave the EU was conducted on the Leave side by claiming that the EU was about to admit 70 million Turks, about to become some Federal superstate, and that x or y was going to happen, with no actual evidence to support these claims but plenty of evidence that these claims were untrue. Yet Remainers were accused of 'Project Fear'! It was Leavers that seemed to fear change in that respect, despite the evidence.

The UK is mostly a literate country (99% literacy), prosperous (and declining since the Brexit vote), and highly democratic (except compared to say Belgium, where regional governments also have a say in Belgian politics, including decisions at EU-level.

'Too democratic'? I disagree. Compared to say Belgium, for the reason I outlined above, the UK are 2nd rate. What England decides, the UK does in most respects outside of the devolved responsibilities.

And the establishment bought the referendum, people like BoJo, Rees-Mogg and others in the ERG who saw a way of consolidating their grip on Westminster. And Farage, who as Britain's representative on the EU fisheries committee representing the UK fishing industry, attending 1 meeting out of 42.

You don't have to whinge though, Fred. You won, get over it.

Thank you, Fred... You say such nice things. Sorry I can't say the same in return.

Aww diddums, Fred. I'm not sure anyone can deny or grant Gib independence other than the UK government via Parliament.

DaveLovesDee

Cameron didn't word the referendum, the Electoral Commission did.

The information given in the government leaflet was factual, which is why Leave campaigners repeatedly called it propaganda. The leaflet was intended to be a starting point for voters to look up further information. Vote Leave and the associated campaigns distorted the facts, aided by Cameron deciding against the clear instruction by Parliament saying otherwise, that the referendum result would be respected. Parliament's clear instruction was that the referendum was advisory to Parliament, and would be used to inform Parliamentary debate. At that point, no matter which side had won, both sides could have submitted further discussions to Parliament for debate via their MPs, and Parliament would have weighed up the pros and cons of both sides and made their own decision. That's democracy.

Red Eric

Wouldn't they have to ask Spain's permission first?

jimenato

I believe that is correct.

KJMW

Spoken like a true socialist. Lets give it all away!

DaveLovesDee

Good point.... Thanks.

That's what she was saying, the Tories keep giving money away.... So if i you correctly, that makes the Tories socialist as well...

Lion in Winter

Thank you.

Watchpost

Excellent post, one of the best I've seen here for a long time. It sums up the situation perfectly. This describes exactly how the situation has been in the UK since 1973.

DaveLovesDee

You're good. Very, very good.

morpeth

There will in most situations in life be some who find opportunity. There are also situations such as Depression, or in the North East when the pits closed, where simply the majority no matter energetic they are do not have much opportunity.

I have had the opinion that many Breixters in pursuit of ideological or emotional goals had disdain for their fellow citizens, or ignorance of basic economics.As I read the post it come across as indicating a lack of emplathy and disdain for rhe average citizen. .

As rhe thread is about Brexit changes certainly appropriate to discuss specific changes0 and if ANY positive change concretely occurs from Breiters I am sure Brexiters and Remainers alike would like to know about.