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Brexit changes

Brexit changes

Old Apr 19th 2021, 10:23 am
  #2851  
 
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
I'm moving to Spain.
So is football apparently, and to Italy too. Well, not literally, but it would seem that money triumphs over faux nationalism in sport as well despite the housing minister (???) assuring us that they will seek to stop this move by "the elites".

https://www.theguardian.com/football...er-league-plan
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Old Apr 19th 2021, 10:42 am
  #2852  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
Actually, all I did was to answer a poster who said they are part of the EU and can move to Spain or wherever and they are very happy to be part of this. I answered that I can also move to Spain. That's it!!

Do I have a criminal record? I don't really know. When I came out of Broadmoor my mind was a little fuzzy...
The fact that moving to Spain is now more difficult both for moving just to live or moving to open a business might well stop a lot of people losing their family fortune leasing a bar in Benidorm, or wherever, and finding the it just can't get the custom to keep going, which is why the lease was available in the first place.
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Old Apr 19th 2021, 12:23 pm
  #2853  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
Actually, all I did was to answer a poster who said they are part of the EU and can move to Spain or wherever and they are very happy to be part of this. I answered that I can also move to Spain. That's it!!

Do I have a criminal record? I don't really know. When I came out of Broadmoor my mind was a little fuzzy...
I am a EU citizens and yes I can move to Spain or Finland or Italy or France now for the purpose that I see fit. Maybe it's for work, maybe for a sabbatical. Maybe it starts out to be a sabbatical and turns into work later. You, la manch, cannot do this. Stop pretending as if all EU countries will allow you in for whatever purpose you see fit. You are a foreigner. You will state your business correctly before you enter Spain. You will provide all the information about your health, about your financial situation, about the purpose of your visit, about the length of your visit etc pp. If the Spanish like what they read they will give you a visa and only then can you move to Spain limited and restricted by the visa. The Spanish can also kick you out when you are not complying with the restrictions of your visa. Or they can decide to change the law and kick you out of the country.

The EU is not your home anymore. You are a foreigner and you have no right whatsoever to live in Spain just like an Indian or Kenyan has no right to live in Spain unless the Spanish explicitly grant you such a right. Stop pretending otherwise. If you don't see that than please explain to me the concept of citizenship.
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Old Apr 19th 2021, 1:16 pm
  #2854  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
Dunno. Now I know I can, I'm going. To be fair, the continental rozzers and governments in places like Spain, Portugal etc are going to be so slow catching up with anyone overstaying that I doubt it'll matter for a long time.
To be completely fair, it's not exactly high on their list of priorities, any more than it is in many another country.

Show me one that actively chases and deports large numbers of overstayers regularly and I'll show you an authoritarian regime. Fortunately, we don't have the screaming abdabs here from the press, politicians and the public about the possibility that not every one of our residents has all the correct authorisations, and that's the way I like it, although boats bearing clandestine migants to beach landings usually generate a fairly swift response and rounding up, so if you're going to come to stay without prior authorisation, make it via an official point of entry.

Of course, coming in as a visitor and staying does have its awkward aspects, like not having access to the public health system, not being able to hold the correct driving licence, not being able to come and go as you please without giving the game away etc but plenty of third country nationals have managed it for long spells in the Iberian peninsular one way or another and in Portugal, at least, you might find a way of regularising your situation eventually. We have laws that cater for that sort of thing.
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Old Apr 19th 2021, 1:46 pm
  #2855  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by Assanah View Post
I am a EU citizens and yes I can move to Spain or Finland or Italy or France now for the purpose that I see fit. Maybe it's for work, maybe for a sabbatical. Maybe it starts out to be a sabbatical and turns into work later. You, la manch, cannot do this. Stop pretending as if all EU countries will allow you in for whatever purpose you see fit. You are a foreigner. You will state your business correctly before you enter Spain. You will provide all the information about your health, about your financial situation, about the purpose of your visit, about the length of your visit etc pp. If the Spanish like what they read they will give you a visa and only then can you move to Spain limited and restricted by the visa. The Spanish can also kick you out when you are not complying with the restrictions of your visa. Or they can decide to change the law and kick you out of the country.

The EU is not your home anymore. You are a foreigner and you have no right whatsoever to live in Spain just like an Indian or Kenyan has no right to live in Spain unless the Spanish explicitly grant you such a right. Stop pretending otherwise. If you don't see that than please explain to me the concept of citizenship.
Very well said... And Brexit was apparently about 'sovereignty', yet the Spanish are exercising theirs quite well, aren't they?

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
To be completely fair, it's not exactly high on their list of priorities, any more than it is in many another country.

Show me one that actively chases and deports large numbers of overstayers regularly and I'll show you an authoritarian regime. Fortunately, we don't have the screaming abdabs here from the press, politicians and the public about the possibility that not every one of our residents has all the correct authorisations, and that's the way I like it, although boats bearing clandestine migrants to beach landings usually generate a fairly swift response and rounding up, so if you're going to come to stay without prior authorisation, make it via an official point of entry.

Of course, coming in as a visitor and staying does have its awkward aspects, like not having access to the public health system, not being able to hold the correct driving licence, not being able to come and go as you please without giving the game away etc but plenty of third country nationals have managed it for long spells in the Iberian peninsular one way or another and in Portugal, at least, you might find a way of regularising your situation eventually. We have laws that cater for that sort of thing.
If there's been one perceived upside to the pandemic, it's that many of the thousands of Australians and other nationalities who overstayed their UK visas over the years and found work under the counter in cities such as London took the opportunity to return to their home countries before travel restrictions left them in a country where they have no legal income, and no access to regular healthcare as you point out.

But the likes of Elgin and others who repeatedly make negative comments about legal EU migrants living in large numbers in a single house, or on illegal migrants, yet they say nothing about those illegal overstayers, neither do the Express or Mail... Why is that?
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Old Apr 19th 2021, 3:23 pm
  #2856  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

I'm pretty sure that some EU countries will not, in the near future, be too bothered about overstays. However, at the beginning of 2023, the ETIAS is due to roll out which will automatically flag overstays when passing through the Schenghan border.
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Old Apr 20th 2021, 6:16 am
  #2857  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
To be completely fair, it's not exactly high on their list of priorities, any more than it is in many another country.

Show me one that actively chases and deports large numbers of overstayers regularly and I'll show you an authoritarian regime. Fortunately, we don't have the screaming abdabs here from the press, politicians and the public about the possibility that not every one of our residents has all the correct authorisations, and that's the way I like it, although boats bearing clandestine migants to beach landings usually generate a fairly swift response and rounding up, so if you're going to come to stay without prior authorisation, make it via an official point of entry.

Of course, coming in as a visitor and staying does have its awkward aspects, like not having access to the public health system, not being able to hold the correct driving licence, not being able to come and go as you please without giving the game away etc but plenty of third country nationals have managed it for long spells in the Iberian peninsular one way or another and in Portugal, at least, you might find a way of regularising your situation eventually. We have laws that cater for that sort of thing.
No of course it's not high priority. The crusty old Brits who haven't sorted themselves out will find issues along the way as you list. The Spanish rozzers are too busy having a snooze anyway. Let the Brits who've stayed and not sorted their affairs struggle and stumble. We get into these situations with people just not managing their shit properly. THe EU was an incredible opportunity for mobility and ease of living, now the continent is the same as it is here - not got a job? can't afford an investment visa? not got your own business? not got a visa at all? Thanks, bye.
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Old Apr 20th 2021, 7:02 am
  #2858  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
No of course it's not high priority. The crusty old Brits who haven't sorted themselves out will find issues along the way as you list. The Spanish rozzers are too busy having a snooze anyway. Let the Brits who've stayed and not sorted their affairs struggle and stumble. We get into these situations with people just not managing their shit properly. THe EU was an incredible opportunity for mobility and ease of living, now the continent is the same as it is here - not got a job? can't afford an investment visa? not got your own business? not got a visa at all? Thanks, bye.
All true.

Remains to be seen whether anyone who's been living unregistered in an EU member state for 3 decades, but working and paying tax, or moved here at the age of 2 months and doesn't have the full record of their arrival and permission to remain, gets slammed into a detention centre and deported to a country they don't remember, though. That might be just a British way of dealing with things.

Ooops - more Brit-hating .
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Old Apr 20th 2021, 7:24 am
  #2859  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
All true.

Remains to be seen whether anyone who's been living unregistered in an EU member state for 3 decades, but working and paying tax, or moved here at the age of 2 months and doesn't have the full record of their arrival and permission to remain, gets slammed into a detention centre and deported to a country they don't remember, though. That might be just a British way of dealing with things.

Ooops - more Brit-hating .
Depends. Are they like us or a bit different?
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Old Apr 20th 2021, 8:14 am
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
No of course it's not high priority. The crusty old Brits who haven't sorted themselves out will find issues along the way as you list. The Spanish rozzers are too busy having a snooze anyway.
Reports are emerging via social media of UK residents in Spain being fined by police for driving on UK licences when they should have been exchanged for Spanish ones, or driving UK-plated cars when they should have been re-registered in Spain. I think people will be realising that they will find it harder to get away with things that have largely gone unchallenged for years, and their delusion that "nothing will change as the Spanish need our money too much" was just wishful thinking.
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Old Apr 20th 2021, 8:53 am
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by Lynn R View Post
Reports are emerging via social media of UK residents in Spain being fined by police for driving on UK licences when they should have been exchanged for Spanish ones, or driving UK-plated cars when they should have been re-registered in Spain. I think people will be realising that they will find it harder to get away with things that have largely gone unchallenged for years, and their delusion that "nothing will change as the Spanish need our money too much" was just wishful thinking.
So true.
I remember the good old days when my Dad brought a Greek registered car back to the UK for a few months. Got a couple of speeding tickets from fixed cameras, asked if he was bothered and just laughed. If the UK government sent a fine to the Greeks to pay, they'd never get anywhere near him or know what to do with it or even less, be bothered to try. Worked a charm.

You can rely on incompetence in any country for some things, but if you're trying to live there and stay resident, you'll quickly fall foul if you don't follow those rules.
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Old Apr 20th 2021, 9:07 am
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
So true.
I remember the good old days when my Dad brought a Greek registered car back to the UK for a few months. Got a couple of speeding tickets from fixed cameras, asked if he was bothered and just laughed. If the UK government sent a fine to the Greeks to pay, they'd never get anywhere near him or know what to do with it or even less, be bothered to try. Worked a charm.

You can rely on incompetence in any country for some things, but if you're trying to live there and stay resident, you'll quickly fall foul if you don't follow those rules.
The reports I saw yesterday about the fines for driving on UK licences said the drivers involved had been parked outside a fish and chips restaurant in a coastal resort - well, it's obvious that British drivers over here at the moment are not tourists, because tourists from the UK haven't been allowed in since before Christmas. The police and Guardia Civil must be homing in on the obvious targets.
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Old Apr 20th 2021, 1:25 pm
  #2863  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by Lynn R View Post
The reports I saw yesterday about the fines for driving on UK licences said the drivers involved had been parked outside a fish and chips restaurant in a coastal resort - well, it's obvious that British drivers over here at the moment are not tourists, because tourists from the UK haven't been allowed in since before Christmas. The police and Guardia Civil must be homing in on the obvious targets.
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Old Apr 20th 2021, 3:30 pm
  #2864  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by Lynn R View Post
Reports are emerging via social media of UK residents in Spain being fined by police for driving on UK licences when they should have been exchanged for Spanish ones, or driving UK-plated cars when they should have been re-registered in Spain. I think people will be realising that they will find it harder to get away with things that have largely gone unchallenged for years, and their delusion that "nothing will change as the Spanish need our money too much" was just wishful thinking.
I think that this has little to do with brexit.
It's police actually doing their job by confronting criminals... and before I hear any bleeding hearts sobbing for the poor expat, such activity demonstrates a deliberate decision to break laws and gives law abiding expats a bad name.
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Old Apr 20th 2021, 8:56 pm
  #2865  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
... and before I hear any bleeding hearts sobbing for the poor expat, such activity demonstrates a deliberate decision to break laws and gives law abiding expats a bad name.
In some cases it mightn't. It could well be down to ignorance and wrong assumptions, as exemplified on a regular basis in one or two of the European forums I either frequent or dip into.

But, I hear you cry, ignorance is no defence in the eyes of the law. No - indeed it isn't, respond I. But when one is aware of the distortions served up daily in those sections of the press most read by the UK public over the past 40 years or so, leading up to a deafening crescendo in 2016, it is a possible explanation as to how people might become so misinformed and so unaware of the facts about their obligations. Or - alternatively - they neither read newspapers nor watch or listen to news enough to be aware of current events but have vague notions they pick up from the most pervasive ether.

I'm not sobbing for any of these people under current discussion, you understand, judging by what I know about them so far. These are in a completely different category from those I alluded to above, though (which I assume occasioned your "bleeding hearts" comment). I think on balance I'll just defer judgement on one and all until I know the full circs in each case, and not leap in to condemn the lot no matter what or suggest that there's equivalence between various entirely different scenarios. And certainly not try to draw equivalence between the treatments dished out by the various authorities under those different scenarios where some are clearly unjust and others not.
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