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Brexit changes

Brexit changes

Old Apr 8th 2021, 2:51 pm
  #2776  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by yellowroom View Post
I am not an expert, but am wondering if it really was a case of the above, why that option couldn't be pursued further?
I'll try and find the article I read it in at the time, but I think the deciding factor was cost. It's cheaper to put customs facilities on one or both sides of the Irish Sea than to build and maintain 310 miles of border fence and to build customs posts at every major crossing point. And because the Irish Sea border places both customs points inside the UK border, it's easier for the UK government to ignore any customs border rules it disagrees with. The fox guarding the hen house?

The UK completely remaining in the EU customs union was actually the best option for everyone, but the ERG and other hard Brexiters didn't want that. But had this happened, the issues at Dover and other ports wouldn't have happened, British companies would still be easily shipping to the EU, and British consumers wouldn't be facing expensive customs charges for purchases from EU suppliers.

Last edited by DaveLovesDee; Apr 8th 2021 at 2:55 pm.
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Old Apr 8th 2021, 4:06 pm
  #2777  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
In the express?

From what I've read it's entirely about the (Brexit) border. The unionists don't like the arrangement, for obvious reasons. But like others have said, as a consequence of Brexit, it was inevitable either way.

It seems pretty obvious that without Brexit, this wouldn't be happening. But we can say it's martians or something.
Wrong on every count.
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Old Apr 8th 2021, 4:13 pm
  #2778  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
I'll try and find the article I read it in at the time, but I think the deciding factor was cost. It's cheaper to put customs facilities on one or both sides of the Irish Sea than to build and maintain 310 miles of border fence and to build customs posts at every major crossing point. And because the Irish Sea border places both customs points inside the UK border, it's easier for the UK government to ignore any customs border rules it disagrees with. The fox guarding the hen house?

The UK completely remaining in the EU customs union was actually the best option for everyone, but the ERG and other hard Brexiters didn't want that. But had this happened, the issues at Dover and other ports wouldn't have happened, British companies would still be easily shipping to the EU, and British consumers wouldn't be facing expensive customs charges for purchases from EU suppliers.
No, it wasn't. Once we ceased to be an EU member, if we were to remain in a customs union with the EU, we would simply have to take and follow the EU's policies on tariffs and external trade without having any effective means of securing that these would reflect our own interests.

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Old Apr 8th 2021, 4:14 pm
  #2779  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Ok, Martians it is.

Last edited by amideislas; Apr 8th 2021 at 5:17 pm.
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Old Apr 8th 2021, 5:57 pm
  #2780  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
The UK completely remaining in the EU customs union was actually the best option for everyone, but the ERG and other hard Brexiters didn't want that
I personally disagree however this was effectively offered in May's deal. Yes, the erg and brexiters voted it down but then again everyone else did too so if (in your eyes) this really was the best way forward then an opportunity was missed - but you cant only blame one side
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Old Apr 8th 2021, 6:10 pm
  #2781  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
It's cheaper to put customs facilities on one or both sides of the Irish Sea than to build and maintain 310 miles of border fence and to build customs posts at every major crossing point.
Controlling a 310-mile border fence against terrorist organizations that don't think it should be there isn't possible without a huge army presence. And we've been there and done that.
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Old Apr 8th 2021, 7:33 pm
  #2782  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Lest we forget, and these are my thoughts.

NI is presently part of the UK and the UK has left the EU and the single market.

There is an international border existing between NI and Eire.

But for the threat of violence by irish nationalists all borders, trade and national, between the UK and the EU should be where NI borders with Eire, but the complication of the GFA skews any rational thought against this obvious position.

It's the need to appease irish nationalism that the UK has agreed to position a trade border within the Irish Sea.

It's not unreasonable for those citizens living in NI to be upset at the arrangements that have impacted their quality of life.

It isn't Brexit that has imposed this state, it's the obvious and real threat from irish nationalists, but for this, rules that apply elsewhere would apply to NI.

Personally the only part way solution to this problem would be a referendum on unification, but the mentality of many irish, both in the north and south, is such that I doubt any result would be acceptable, you have only to witness the recent nightly stupidity.

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Old Apr 8th 2021, 7:37 pm
  #2783  
 
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
Lest we forget, and these are my thoughts.

NI is presently part of the UK and the UK has left the EU and the single market.

There is an international border existing between NI and Eire.

But for the threat of violence by irish nationalists all borders, trade and national, between the UK and the EU should be where NI borders with Eire, but the complication of the GFA skews any rational thought against this obvious position.

It's the need to appease irish nationalism that the UK has agreed to position a trade border within the Irish Sea.

It's not unreasonable for those citizens living in NI to be upset at the arrangements that have impacted their quality of life.

It isn't Brexit that has imposed this state, it's the obvious and real threat from irish nationalists, but for this, rules that apply elsewhere would apply to NI.

Personally the only part way solution to this problem would be a referendum on unification, but the mentality of many irish, both in the north and south, is such that I doubt any result would be acceptable, you have only to witness the recent nightly stupidity.

Lest we forget - this is the kind of thinking that created decades of "troubles", and which the Good Friday agreement put to rest. Only to have the fires reignited by an entirely unnecessary act of self-harm.
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Old Apr 8th 2021, 8:06 pm
  #2784  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
Wrong on every count.
Are you suggesting that had Brexit not happened, the border problems would still be happening?

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
No, it wasn't. Once we ceased to be an EU member, if we were to remain in a customs union with the EU, we would simply have to take and follow the EU's policies on tariffs and external trade without having any effective means of securing that these would reflect our own interests.
Fair point. How's the new system of GB out, NI in working for everyone?

Edit to add; The system where the EU tells the UK what rules are required to export to the EU, that the UK now has no say in?

Originally Posted by Timmy Chch View Post
I personally disagree however this was effectively offered in May's deal. Yes, the erg and brexiters voted it down but then again everyone else did too so if (in your eyes) this really was the best way forward then an opportunity was missed - but you cant only blame one side
Brexit: What alternative plans did MPs vote on?

Motion C: Customs unionProposer: Ken Clarke, Conservative

Result: 273 votes for and 276 against

This option commits the government to negotiating "a permanent and comprehensive UK-wide customs union with the EU" as part of any Brexit deal.

This arrangement would give the UK a closer trading relationship with the EU and reduce the need for some (but not all) checks at the Irish border.
It lost by 3 votes, the closest on any of the options.

Last edited by DaveLovesDee; Apr 8th 2021 at 9:05 pm.
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Old Apr 8th 2021, 8:16 pm
  #2785  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Apparently, Brexit is going so well, it can't possibly have anything to do with the violence in NI, that's now being reported in virtually every media outlet worldwide, citing the consequences of Brexit as a fundamental cause.

Bunch o' liars. No clue. Brexit is going great. Has nothing to do with Brexit.
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Old Apr 8th 2021, 9:48 pm
  #2786  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
...a referendum...doubt any result would be acceptable...
Where have I heard that before?
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Old Today, 5:06 pm
  #2787  
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Well, well, well, who would have thought it: food and live animal exports to the EU increased by 77.4% in February, when compared to January, after being significantly impacted in the first month of the year. Not only that, people, but shipments of fish and shellfish also saw a surge as exporters adjusted to new regulations following the transition period. Hey, hey, hey, and guess what? After a downturn of 40 whatever % in January, our exports to the EU have bounced back a heathy 46.6% in February. I can't hear you, people... doomsters one and all...can you hear me? No doubt if the figures showed a further drop in our exports to the EU it would have been all over BE by now. But there you go...suddenly you've all gone schtum.

Isn't life grand!!!!
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Old Today, 5:10 pm
  #2788  
 
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Default Re: Brexit changes

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
Well, well, well, who would have thought it: food and live animal exports to the EU increased by 77.4% in February, when compared to January, after being significantly impacted in the first month of the year. Not only that, people, but shipments of fish and shellfish also saw a surge as exporters adjusted to new regulations following the transition period. Hey, hey, hey, and guess what? After a downturn of 40 whatever % in January, our exports to the EU have bounced back a heathy 46.6% in February. I can't hear you, people... doomsters one and all...can you hear me? No doubt if the figures showed a further drop in our exports to the EU it would have been all over BE by now. But there you go...suddenly you've all gone schtum.

Isn't life grand!!!!

Excellent. So we are learning how to follow all the EU's rules and regulations for third party traders. It costs us more, but hey. Still below where we were a year ago, but one can't have everything.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/bre...s-back-7894702
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