Brexit

Old May 15th 2022, 9:37 am
  #9196  
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Default Re: Brexit

Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post
That's exactly what you did in the referendum (topic of this thread).

My vote in the referendum was entirely due to the future advantage of the UK.
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Old May 15th 2022, 9:41 am
  #9197  
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Default Re: Brexit

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
My vote in the referendum was entirely due to the future advantage of the UK.
And how's that working out for you and/or the country ?
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Old May 15th 2022, 10:14 am
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Default Re: Brexit

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
And how's that working out for you and/or the country ?

The present PM and Government are, as all describe on this thread, so certainly Brexit is not being managed well. Although it was always going to take time.
However the obviously unpredicted pandemic was also a negative to any progress. (Although I am sure you will disagree! )

What is your opinion of the Pres. Macron suggestion of a new 'European Political Community'? I thought it was worth considering. I would really like to know your view.

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Old May 15th 2022, 10:21 am
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Default Re: Brexit

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
The present PM and Government are, as all describe on this thread, so certainly Brexit is not being managed well. Although it was always going to take time.
However the obviously unpredicted pandemic was also a negative to any progress. (Although I am sure you will disagree! )
The fiasco that is Brexit is nothing to do with the pandemic, Partygate or Ukraine, or any other distraction, real or imagined.

Meanwhile...

Suella Braverman


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Old May 15th 2022, 10:30 am
  #9200  
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Default Re: Brexit

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
1) I would disagree------- the 'disdain for others' ----is the view that those who do not live in the UK and have no intention of ever returning to live in the UK should have the same voting rights as a person who has never left the UK and who is affected daily by the Government in power.
(As I said a longer time limit for those who previously moved to live permanently in EU countries and those who continue to pay tax,)

2) Yes --I am pleased you agree.
A bit confusing for (2) what you are agreeing with.

Why should someone who is British not be able to vote no matter where they live - and note many Brits abroad continue to pay National Insurance contributions. It seems as though taking away opportunities or rights of being a British citizen is fairly common in your opinions.
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Old May 15th 2022, 10:35 am
  #9201  
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Default Re: Brexit

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
A bit confusing for (2) what you are agreeing with.

Why should someone who is British not be able to vote no matter where they live - and note many Brits abroad continue to pay National Insurance contributions. It seems as though taking away opportunities or rights of being a British citizen is fairly common in your opinions.
And income tax!
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Old May 15th 2022, 10:37 am
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Default Re: Brexit

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
The present PM and Government are, as all describe on this thread, so certainly Brexit is not being managed well. Although it was always going to take time.
However the obviously unpredicted pandemic was also a negative to any progress. (Although I am sure you will disagree! )

What is your opinion of the Pres. Macron suggestion of a new 'European Political Community'? I thought it was worth considering. I would really like to know your view.
I thik you are missing that the reasons Brexit isn't being handled well is the very nature of Brexit contentions- based on wishful thinking and emotional considerations, there was/is no reasons it would work overall- and those gullible enough to be swayed by Brexit propaganda and those voting for emotional reasons, supported leaders with similar beliefs in wishful thinking. The answer of Brexiters that it was 'always' supposed to take time is somewhat strange that after 15 months everything points to a negative oevrall outcome. The fact that Brexiters struggle so hard to even come up with one significant positive outcome demonstrates this- sure the pandemic one factor- but voting based on wishful thinking and improbable reasons for Johnson and his merry band makes sense for Brexiters as they have the same mentality of wishful thinking and taking away opportunities for British citizns and busienss.
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Old May 15th 2022, 10:43 am
  #9203  
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Default Re: Brexit

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
My vote in the referendum was entirely due to the future advantage of the UK.
Yet apart from your emotional fear of the ECJ , never has any rational highly probable advantage been demonstrated in your posts. The only reasons I can see you have presented is (a) the rather off idea that British bureaucrats and legislators necessary better than UK ones (b) concern that more Indians can enter the UK (c) the entirely wishful thinking that any trade deal will necessarily be a benefit for the UK.

It isn't a question of time, Brexit beliefs were based on either ignorance or extremely faulty logic- no amount of time will make up for illogical policies.

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Old May 15th 2022, 10:48 am
  #9204  
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Default Re: Brexit

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
1) A bit confusing for (2) what you are agreeing with.

2) Why should someone who is British not be able to vote no matter where they live - and note many Brits abroad continue to pay National Insurance contributions. It seems as though taking away opportunities or rights of being a British citizen is fairly common in your opinions.

1) What you said at the time about holding a British 'passport'!

2) What is your definition of "citizen'?-----is someone who has not lived in Britain for decades and has no intention of returning a 'citizen'?
What about the 'rights' of a meaningful vote to those who live permanently in UK and for whom daily life depends on the Government in power, should those rights be diluted?

The payment of tax etc. in more than one country is a fact for those who work in more than one country---it surely does not give equal rights as to those of the permanent citizens.


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Old May 15th 2022, 10:53 am
  #9205  
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Default Re: Brexit

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post

The payment of tax etc. in more than one country is a fact for those who work in more than one country---it surely does not give equal rights as to those of the permanent citizens.
You might want to rethink this comment, in light of your own circumstances.

Right now I am as much of a permanent citizen as you are, as are many expats / bipats.

Last edited by Expatrick; May 15th 2022 at 10:58 am.
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Old May 15th 2022, 11:05 am
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Default Re: Brexit

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
1) Yet apart from your emotional fear of the ECJ , never has any rational highly probable advantage been demonstrated in your posts. The only reasons I can see you have presented is (a) the rather off idea that British bureaucrats and legislators necessary better than UK ones 2) (b) concern that more Indians can enter the UK 3) (c) the entirely wishful thinking that any trade deal will necessarily be a benefit for the UK.

It isn't a question of time, Brexit beliefs were based on either ignorance or extremely faulty logic- no amount of time will make up for illogical policies.

1) The reasoned decision that being part of a future EU federation or having your legal system as as a subsidiary to another is a negative ----you describe as 'emotional'?

2) Morpeth will you please stop this continually repeated remark----why would I want more Indians or any other particular nationality to come to the UK?

3) It is your your apparent wishful thinking, that any trade deal will be a negative for the UK
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Old May 15th 2022, 11:21 am
  #9207  
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Default Re: Brexit

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
1) The reasoned decision that being part of a future EU federation or having your legal system as as a subsidiary to another is a negative ----you describe as 'emotional'?
Which translates into

"It is an established principle of international law that a state is obliged to discharge its treaty obligations in good faith. This is, and will remain, the key principle in informing the UK's approach to international relations. However, in the difficult and highly exceptional circumstances in which we find ourselves, it is important to remember the fundamental principle of Parliamentary sovereignty."
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Old May 15th 2022, 11:26 am
  #9208  
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Default Re: Brexit

Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post
You might want to rethink this comment, in light of your own circumstances.

Right now I am as much of a permanent citizen as you are, as are many expats / bipats.

I am not sure of your point ----I said that I thought British nationals living abroad permanently with no intention to return to the UK to live or returning to live within agreed time should not have equal voting rights with permanent residents and that payment of tax etc. did not alter this. Occasional visits to UK are not 'living' in the UK
By "citizen" I am using the definition of 'living there'.

My circumstances are that I am not permanently abroad so vote in the country of my nationality.

Anyway as the law is to be changed what I think is irrelevant, it is a point of discussion.

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Old May 15th 2022, 11:40 am
  #9209  
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Default Re: Brexit

Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post
Which translates into

"It is an established principle of international law that a state is obliged to discharge its treaty obligations in good faith. This is, and will remain, the key principle in informing the UK's approach to international relations. However, in the difficult and highly exceptional circumstances in which we find ourselves, it is important to remember the fundamental principle of Parliamentary sovereignty."

A treaty/EU membership which includes its legal 'system' as superior to the law per se of member countries is unique. We have left EU membership.
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Old May 15th 2022, 11:45 am
  #9210  
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Default Re: Brexit

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
I am not sure of your point ----I said that I thought British nationals living abroad permanently with no intention to return to the UK to live or returning to live within agreed time should not have equal voting rights with permanent residents and that payment of tax etc. did not alter this. Occasional visits to UK are not 'living' in the UK
By "citizen" I am using the definition of 'living there'.

My circumstances are that I am not permanently abroad so vote in the country of my nationality.

Anyway as the law is to be changed what I think is irrelevant, it is a point of discussion.
Typically elastic response from you (rather like that from the AG above).

Definition of citizen

a legally recognized subject or national of a state or commonwealth, either native or naturalized.
Currently I am subject to the will & whims of the British electorate / government (Brexit being a fine example). Therefore I expect the right to participate in the process.
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