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The Black Lives Matter movement

The Black Lives Matter movement

Old Jan 15th 2022, 4:39 am
  #1321  
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Default Re: The Black Lives Matter movement

Originally Posted by Derrygal View Post
It's not just murders - white people who disappear are given way more press coverage than black or brown people. Remember last summer? I am thinking back to the Gabby Petito case - it was all over the news and went on for days and days - probably because she was young, white and pretty. Black and brown people just don't get the same coverage - no matter what happens to them. You cannot deny that - it's a fact!
Not disagreeing with your generalization, but in Gabby's case I think it was the fact that bodycam video shattered the carefully cultivated YouTuber image of this dreamily happy young couple.

There are police videos of black people being patiently and respectfully questioned/arrested, and the black person reacting in a most aggressive and unreasonable fashion. Show these on TV (or mention them online) and the automatic reaction is, that's racist.
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Old Jan 15th 2022, 11:59 am
  #1322  
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Default Re: The Black Lives Matter movement

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
There are police videos of black people being patiently and respectfully questioned/arrested, and the black person reacting in a most aggressive and unreasonable fashion. Show these on TV (or mention them online) and the automatic reaction is, that's racist.
​​​​
Got any examples of that?
I remember two specific ones - one was the actor couple that were having sex in their car, door open, that several people had been reported. Another was a motorist stopped who went to the papers about her treatment.

The release of videos showing what was said and how the people involved behaved made the police look very good and those stopped were an embarrassment. I remember nothing but ridicule for those concerned.

Maybe this reaction you are describing is rare and perhaps twisted, common to certain types of people. They and their hangouts are best avoided.


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Old Jan 16th 2022, 12:09 am
  #1323  
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Default Re: The Black Lives Matter movement

Originally Posted by Derrygal View Post
It's not just murders - white people who disappear are given way more press coverage than black or brown people. Remember last summer? I am thinking back to the Gabby Petito case - it was all over the news and went on for days and days - probably because she was young, white and pretty. Black and brown people just don't get the same coverage - no matter what happens to them. You cannot deny that - it's a fact!
We all know this is because white people are preyed on more by transvestites in public bathrooms. Well only the pretty ones, we know how that lot are picky about that.



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Old Jan 17th 2022, 5:03 am
  #1324  
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Default Re: The Black Lives Matter movement

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Got any examples of that?
I remember two specific ones - one was the actor couple that were having sex in their car, door open, that several people had been reported. Another was a motorist stopped who went to the papers about her treatment.

The release of videos showing what was said and how the people involved behaved made the police look very good and those stopped were an embarrassment. I remember nothing but ridicule for those concerned.

Maybe this reaction you are describing is rare and perhaps twisted, common to certain types of people. They and their hangouts are best avoided.
There are examples and I think I posted one way up thread. It's not something I typically seek out but YouTube does serve them up if one starts look.
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Old Jan 17th 2022, 3:37 pm
  #1325  
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Default Re: The Black Lives Matter movement

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
There are examples and I think I posted one way up thread. It's not something I typically seek out but YouTube does serve them up if one starts look.
Ah yes, but that's not what I was getting at.
Earlier you said "Show these on TV or mention them online (examples of police being polite and reasonable with those stopped being obstructive/aggressive whatever) and the automatic reaction is, that's racist."

The examples I gave where the opposite happened and those behaving unreasonably were rightly ridiculed and called out for their behaviour were where the examples were broadcast on TV and shown in mainstream media with appropriate reaction in the same media.

I would suggest that something on youtube only, not making it to mainstream media, and discussed only on YT (or similar) is actually not representative of "normal" reaction.

It's the same as when those YT videos were all over the place claiming the US election had been stolen and all the comments underneath were agreeing.

They were not reasonable reactions representative of people in general just those of people seeking that stuff out who wanted to believe it.



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Old Jan 17th 2022, 4:43 pm
  #1326  
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Default Re: The Black Lives Matter movement

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Not disagreeing with your generalization, but in Gabby's case I think it was the fact that bodycam video shattered the carefully cultivated YouTuber image of this dreamily happy young couple.

There are police videos of black people being patiently and respectfully questioned/arrested, and the black person reacting in a most aggressive and unreasonable fashion. Show these on TV (or mention them online) and the automatic reaction is, that's racist.
​​​​

Wait. Whoa. Black people have been caught in the act of rudeness? This is a game changer. What should we do? This is OUTRAGEOUS. The only answer is to reinstate slavery or, at least, sew their lips shut. Put snakes in their beds?

FYI the TV show COPS has been on TV for 33 years and they pretty much built their empire on televising black people (as we as other ethnicities) being aggressive and unreasonable. I've watched plenty of episodes and never reacted by saying, "That's racist."
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Old Jan 17th 2022, 4:48 pm
  #1327  
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Default Re: The Black Lives Matter movement

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
There are examples and I think I posted one way up thread. It's not something I typically seek out but YouTube does serve them up if one starts look.
Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Ah yes, but that's not what I was getting at.
Earlier you said "Show these on TV or mention them online (examples of police being polite and reasonable with those stopped being obstructive/aggressive whatever) and the automatic reaction is, that's racist."

The examples I gave where the opposite happened and those behaving unreasonably were rightly ridiculed and called out for their behaviour were where the examples were broadcast on TV and shown in mainstream media with appropriate reaction in the same media.

I would suggest that something on youtube only, not making it to mainstream media, and discussed only on YT (or similar) is actually not representative of "normal" reaction.

It's the same as when those YT videos were all over the place claiming the US election had been stolen and all the comments underneath were agreeing.

They were not reasonable reactions representative of people in general just those of people seeking that stuff out who wanted to believe it.



Youtube is good for a few things . . . look at this rude person. Obviously, a black person. Because, you know, it's the black ones that are rude to the very respectful police. Everyone else complies immediately.


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Old Jan 17th 2022, 5:16 pm
  #1328  
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Default Re: The Black Lives Matter movement

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Not disagreeing with your generalization, but in Gabby's case I think it was the fact that bodycam video shattered the carefully cultivated YouTuber image of this dreamily happy young couple.
I dont frequent Nancy Grace, so I might be wrong, but this case seeped in to the culture enough that I don't think i am. Wasn't the release of the police video, some time in to the story? It was not a part of the initial narrative. It got caught up and dragged along by the tidal wave of Nancy Graceyian interest.

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
There are police videos of black people being patiently and respectfully questioned/arrested, and the black person reacting in a most aggressive and unreasonable fashion. Show these on TV (or mention them online) and the automatic reaction is, that's racist.
​​​​
What is the link here? What is the segway? How did you go from one issue, to the other? I see a chasm, and I dont know how you crossed it, to link the one with the other.
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Old Jan 17th 2022, 5:25 pm
  #1329  
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Default Re: The Black Lives Matter movement

Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
I dont frequent Nancy Grace, so I might be wrong, but this case seeped in to the culture enough that I don't think i am. Wasn't the release of the police video, some time in to the story? It was not a part of the initial narrative. It got caught up and dragged along by the tidal wave of Nancy Graceyian interest.
The video I saw was released by the Police after the person who recorded it noticed Petito's van on the side of the road.and someone in the field beside it. Her body was found at the spot the person was seen in the video.
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Old Jan 17th 2022, 5:28 pm
  #1330  
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Default Re: The Black Lives Matter movement

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
The video I saw was released by the Police after the person who recorded it noticed Petito's van on the side of the road.and someone in the field beside it. Her body was found at the spot the person was seen in the video.
That fits in to my memory timeline, and would be nearer the end than the beginning of the whole kerfuffle

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Old Jan 17th 2022, 5:54 pm
  #1331  
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Default Re: The Black Lives Matter movement

Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
That fits in to my memory timeline, and would be nearer the end than the beginning of the whole ca****le.

edit: seriously, this word gets censored, because of some letters in the middle? SNIP
There are only 2 words that are automatically censored…you used one of them.
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Old Jan 17th 2022, 6:09 pm
  #1332  
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Default Re: The Black Lives Matter movement

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl View Post
There are only 2 words that are automatically censored…you used one of them.
It had never in my life of using this word, considered that it was an extension of the f word. Not until your post did it even cross my mind what its etymology might be. I just gave it a quick Goodge, and it doesn't seem to be very common. Feeling a little bit naive about it.
edit: further Googling indicates the word is actually kerfuffle

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Old Jan 17th 2022, 6:39 pm
  #1333  
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Default Re: The Black Lives Matter movement

Today's the day when American conservatives fall over themselves to celebrate a man who they would be complaining about if he was still alive today.
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Old Jan 17th 2022, 7:56 pm
  #1334  
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Default Re: The Black Lives Matter movement

Originally Posted by Anian View Post
Today's the day when American conservatives fall over themselves to celebrate a man who they would be complaining about if he was still alive today.
Might be a bit long, or even a bit annoying for some. But it covers the issue well. The fixation of the right on one, and only one line from King. And the ignoring and denial of just about every other thing he ever said.
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Old Yesterday, 6:29 pm
  #1335  
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Default Re: The Black Lives Matter movement

Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
This thread went far beyond this case and started to discuss systemic racism, the "deeply flawed" American justice system, the racism of white Americans etc. Yes, I did. And I mean it. Oh come on, I didn't do this at all. I object to that. In fact, quite the opposite has happened. I refer you to the various straw men that have been created here exaggerating what I actually said to a ridiculous and easily attacked degree if you'd like to see examples of people "assigning" me "roles".I DID make an argument, which neither you nor most others (with the possible exception of Shard) actually took the time to read and respond to.
Oh is that what you said? Because when I read it, it sounded like this:

"The one-sidedness of the posting here needs some context. People are sadly murdered every day in the US and the fixation on this case seems politically motivated. The blanket coverage of the Aubery case is verging on distorting reality. In 2018, 514 white people were killed by black people. 234 black people were killed by white people. Given that 58% of Americans are white and about 12% of Americans are black, normalizing for population size makes this disparity grow even more dramatically. I'd never say that there's an "epidemic of black on white murder in the US", and clearly the idea that there's some sort of epidemic of white on black violence is even more absurd. Likewise, over 10x the number of black people killed by white people were killed by other black people. That likewise seems relevant.

Source for this: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...ta-table-6.xls

The Aubery case is tragic and his murder was outrageous. Justice has been served. Still, tragically it's a fact that pointless, horrific murder happens daily in the US. In that regard, this blanket coverage and "say his name" obsession seems like a political view, not a reflection of reality."


When you use words like --- "fixated" "absurd" "obsession" "politically motivated" "distorting reality" "one sided" --- well, you know what I'm getting at.


I'll repeat it just so it's clear:
I believe the Aubrey case has received disproportionate coverage compared to other murders precisely because it was a case of fat white guys with goatees killing an unarmed young black man.
I believe that has happened because the case resonates with broader themes of white racism and violence against black people (others here have made this same point).
The reason the Aubrey [sic] case has received ANY coverage at all, is because of the video. The fat guys with goatees were fat and goateed prior to the leaking of the video yet there was zero coverage.

I believe that violent white racism, while abhorrent, is NOT a major cause of death among young black men, an opinion backed up by readily available and compelling statistics. I also believe that black racism against white people is similarly not a major cause of death among white people, even though the statistics actually back that up more than the reverse.
For all of the above, I perceive cherry-picked focus on this particular case to the exclusion of others because it fits into the narrative of the dangers of white racism. I believe the single-minded coverage of and focus on this case is distorting the reality of the situation.
The reason it was "cherry picked" was because there was actually something being done about it after the video was leaked and went viral. Your point seems to be that since this event is not the "major" cause of death among young black men (nobody on this thread said is was BTW) we shouldn't be paying so much attention to Arbery case. Terrorism is not the leading cause of death of anybody but we cover terrorist attacks. Serial killers are not the leading cause of death anywhere yet we cover those extensively. Lots of cases are sensationalized specifically for the reason that just because they are UNUSUAL it doesn't mean they are not shocking. These types of murders make no sense and people want to understand the inexplicable. If this had been a case of two white men shooting a black convenience store clerk during a robbery, it still would have been tragic but it would not be so heavily covered. But you already know all of this.

Yes. It has been front page news nation wide.
Nope. It was initially covered only when the video was leaked (two months after his death) because of the shocking nature of the crime and the behavior of law enforcement. Then the trial was well covered, again because of the unusual nature of all of the events surrounding the murder. Between those two events there was very little coverage --- only when something new (and usually shocking) came out about the police cover up. Google is your friend. Go find all those front page stories we've been reading for two years straight. They're not there.



There has been much, much more coverage of this case than the vast majority of other murders that have occurred since. This seems self-evident to me. I respectfully disagree with this characterization. This case has been national news since it happened. True, but in fairness given that there wasn't an investigation there wasn't much to report.
So what? Most murders aren't video taped. Most murders don't include three people simultaneously losing their goddamn minds, gunning down a man in the street, all the while filming themselves. Most murders don't involve a police cover up (though I'm starting to wonder) that results in the DA being indicted.

I guess you didn't actually pay attention to the case? Or maybe you did but you're hoping nobody else bothered to? You've made some troubling statements so I'll correct the record in the event somebody is reading this thread and taking everything at face value. This is a textbook case of the flawed American justice system giving proof that black people are often treated differently than white people by law enforcement --- maybe not in every situation but in many more than should ever happen. A few facts . . .

1) Mr. Arbery was indeed murdered by the police. One of his murderers was a career law enforcement officer who had been retired for less than a year. While he was not currently employed, he had extensive training and experience and felt that he was lawfully correct in his behavior (much more can be said about this if you like).

2) The same recently retired law enforcement officer, Gregory McMichael, called his former boss (the Brunswick county prosecutor) within an hour of the murder. While the crime scene was still active, he was asking for help/advice after having been involved in the murder of Arbery.

3) The police officers that arrived at the scene showed familiarity and deference to Mr. McMichael. They knew who he was. He was not taken into custody and they unquestioningly accepted his (their) version of events. They did not look for witnesses or question people from the neighborhood.

4) Collins, McMichael's former boss and Brunswick county prosecutor, did not pursue an investigation of the murder. She eventually recused herself because McMichael had worked in her office.

5) The case, still uninvestigated, was sent to George Barnhill even though McMichael had also worked in his office. Barnhill also eventually recused himself, and in the process, sent a recommendation forward DEFENDING McMichael's actions and advising against arresting the murderers for lack of probable cause.


As I said before, it all came out in the trial. Both the unfathomable behavior of a recently retired police officer and the local prosecutors.

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