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-   -   After birth 'abortions'??!! (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/after-birth-abortions-750005/)

Uncle Ebenezer Feb 29th 2012 7:05 pm

Re: After birth 'abortions'??!!
 

Originally Posted by Leslie (Post 9928053)
Baptists.

Lutherans.

fatbrit Feb 29th 2012 7:07 pm

Re: After birth 'abortions'??!!
 

Originally Posted by Leslie (Post 9927994)
How can innocence be defined? Is it a human being who has never done anything wrong? How can you even define what "wrong" is?

Aren't some lives are better left unlived? If I had in my mind the power to decided the fate of an attached zygote, through some sort of "mental abortion", that was going to be born into a life of abuse, pain, and degredation, I would opt for the unlived life every time. I feel much the same about women being forced to have children they don't want. How many of those children would have been better off never having been born?

Innocence removes self-defence, war and the capital punishment debate in the argument.

Some lives better unlived indeed suggests that it's okay to kill an innocent human being.

SultanOfSwing Feb 29th 2012 7:10 pm

Re: After birth 'abortions'??!!
 

Originally Posted by fatbrit (Post 9928060)
Innocence removes self-defence, war and the capital punishment debate in the argument.

Some lives better unlived indeed suggests that it's okay to kill an innocent human being.

One has to detach oneself from the emotional response of thinking that a foetus in utero is a human being in the same way as a delivered baby, child, grown person is. I do not believe, personally, that it is.

Perhaps that makes me a bad person for thinking that way but that's how I rationalise to myself the difference between advocating the allowance of medically valid terminations; and being against infanticide and murder. One's mileage may (and likely will) vary.

Leslie Feb 29th 2012 7:12 pm

Re: After birth 'abortions'??!!
 

Originally Posted by fatbrit (Post 9928060)
Innocence removes self-defence, war and the capital punishment debate in the argument.

Some lives better unlived indeed suggests that it's okay to kill an innocent human being.

A life unlived means there was never a life to extinguish. Nobody is killed, innocent or otherwise.

Uncle Ebenezer Feb 29th 2012 7:12 pm

Re: After birth 'abortions'??!!
 

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 9928067)
One has to detach oneself from the emotional response of thinking that a foetus in utero is a human being in the same way as a delivered baby, child, grown person is. I do not believe, personally, that it is.

Perhaps that makes me a bad person for thinking that way but that's how I rationalise to myself the difference between advocating the allowance of medically valid terminations; and being against infanticide and murder. One's mileage may (and likely will) vary.

Maybe we should be thinking about what that foetus could be - what it could experience and achieve, should it be allowed to flourish.

Leslie Feb 29th 2012 7:13 pm

Re: After birth 'abortions'??!!
 

Originally Posted by Uncle Ebenezer (Post 9928073)
Maybe we should be thinking about what that foetus could be - what it could experience and achieve, should it be allowed to flourish.

Why?

Uncle Ebenezer Feb 29th 2012 7:20 pm

Re: After birth 'abortions'??!!
 

Originally Posted by Leslie (Post 9928075)
Why?

Because life should not be snuffed out, on a whim. Look back on your life experiences, good and bad - would you have wanted to miss out on that?

Leslie Feb 29th 2012 7:23 pm

Re: After birth 'abortions'??!!
 

Originally Posted by Uncle Ebenezer (Post 9928082)
Because life should not be snuffed out, on a whim. Look back on your life experiences, good and bad - would you have wanted to miss out on that?

Meh. Give or take. I think life is overrated. It's mostly shit, tbh. :lol:

SultanOfSwing Feb 29th 2012 7:25 pm

Re: After birth 'abortions'??!!
 

Originally Posted by Uncle Ebenezer (Post 9928073)
Maybe we should be thinking about what that foetus could be - what it could experience and achieve, should it be allowed to flourish.

We probably should, in a philosophical sense. This is why I don't agree with using abortions as a method of contraception, where adoption would be a much better route to take.

The circumstances where I advocate pro-choice are more in situations where an unsurvivable birth defect would result in no quality of life for the baby, even if it were to survive the birth and the first few hours/days/weeks of life. Especially in cases where there is no higher brain function - where the baby is just nothing more than a breathing bag of organs with no sense that it even is alive. That makes me sound utterly heartless, but I still believe it is a valid consideration for an early termination, as there is no consideration of what it could be in those cases.

Uncle Ebenezer Feb 29th 2012 7:25 pm

Re: After birth 'abortions'??!!
 

Originally Posted by Leslie (Post 9928089)
Meh. Give or take. I think life is overrated. It's mostly shit, tbh. :lol:

I take your point.

Kill the f**king lot of them - we'll be doing them a favour.

Leslie Feb 29th 2012 7:33 pm

Re: After birth 'abortions'??!!
 

Originally Posted by Uncle Ebenezer (Post 9928093)
I take your point.

Kill the f**king lot of them - we'll be doing them a favour.

It's a philosophical conversation, I am presenting my feelings about the human condition. I'm not suggesting anybody actually act on my personal philosophy. You are the one using your feelings about the human condition as an argument against abortion.

Uncle Ebenezer Feb 29th 2012 7:38 pm

Re: After birth 'abortions'??!!
 

Originally Posted by Leslie (Post 9928099)
It's a philosophical conversation, I am presenting my feelings about the human condition. I'm not suggesting anybody actually act on my personal philosophy. You are the one using your feelings about the human condition as an argument against abortion.

I wasn't taking issue with you, merely agreeing with your sentiment. :p

Leslie Feb 29th 2012 7:44 pm

Re: After birth 'abortions'??!!
 

Originally Posted by Uncle Ebenezer (Post 9928104)
I wasn't taking issue with you, merely agreeing with your sentiment. :p

I was just thinking, for a misery guts like you, you were being awfully soft. ;)

Uncle Ebenezer Feb 29th 2012 7:49 pm

Re: After birth 'abortions'??!!
 

Originally Posted by Leslie (Post 9928112)
I was just thinking, for a misery guts like you, you were being awfully soft. ;)

That's what happens, when you become a grandparent. :D

DeltaSierra70 Feb 29th 2012 9:10 pm

Re: After birth 'abortions'??!!
 

Originally Posted by Uncle Ebenezer (Post 9928125)
That's what happens, when you become a grandparent. :D

That is one of the few thing in our lives that my wife misses more than anything else. Our only child has decided she doesn't want any children, and at age 42 and having a wimp for a husband, it's not now likely to happen. So, we have two cats, a small indoor dog, a big out door dog, and my wife makes dolls 6 to 8 hours a day, as well as Christening dresses for the poorer families at her Church.


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