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Giantaxe Aug 16th 2021 10:30 pm

Re: Afghanistan
 

Originally Posted by robin1234 (Post 13041265)
Yes, my apologies, I was really responding to the other poster, and didn’t mean to quote you.

You are right that announcing you are going to withdraw is a poor negotiating tactic! Trump was not the savviest of negotiators - he wasn’t one to listen to his advisors.

Iirc, Trump stopped negotiating with the Taliban at one point before restarting talks due to his desire to fulfill a campaign promise to "end endless wars". On that theme it looks like the Republican Party doesn't want to take any credit for the deal any more:

"GOP takes down 2020 page touting Trump's 'historic peace agreement with the Taliban'"

https://theweek.com/afghanistan-war/...ement-with-the

scrubbedexpat091 Aug 17th 2021 2:07 am

Re: Afghanistan
 
A C-17 flight by US military on Aug 15 to Qatar from Kabul. Emirates Airlines flight 640 was on approach to Kabul on Sunday when everything went to hell, they decided not to land, and went back to Dubai, about 8 hours round trip, NOTAM was issued advising pilots there is no ATC available in Afghan airspace and its fly at your own risk.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...4d85681a09.jpg

kimilseung Aug 17th 2021 2:51 am

Re: Afghanistan
 
Looking at Kabul makes me consider and think what would I do here in the USA if it happens to us. Not just Jan 6th, but the armed checkpoint set up in Oregon against Antifa because of forest fires. Democracy is still under threat here. It might not be within days as was Afghanistan. But when it happens, no one really ever sees the last days coming. They just happen.

scrubbedexpat091 Aug 17th 2021 2:56 am

Re: Afghanistan
 

Originally Posted by kimilseung (Post 13041302)
Looking at Kabul makes me consider and think what would I do here in the USA if it happens to us. Not just Jan 6th, but the armed checkpoint set up in Oregon against Antifa because of forest fires. Democracy is still under threat here. It might not be within days as was Afghanistan. But when it happens, no one really ever sees the last days coming. They just happen.

Flee to Canada? Long border, Canada has too few resources to do much, but then if the US goes south like that, Canada will likely be taken down at some point as well, we really don't have the military necessary to protect us, but maybe UK and other countries could step in to help protect Canada.


Giantaxe Aug 17th 2021 3:13 am

Re: Afghanistan
 
Flee to Mexico? Healthcare is a lot cheaper there too.

Former Lancastrian Aug 17th 2021 10:01 am

Re: Afghanistan
 

Originally Posted by Giantaxe (Post 13041307)
Flee to Mexico? Healthcare is a lot cheaper there too.

Better weather in winter as well. A lot of US citizens if fleeing to Canada would soon flee back once they saw the price of booze and cheese in Canada.

Scamp Aug 17th 2021 10:32 am

Re: Afghanistan
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 13041374)
Better weather in winter as well. A lot of US citizens if fleeing to Canada would soon flee back once they saw the price of booze and cheese in Canada.

Americans don't know what cheese is.

They know what orange canned dairy solids are, but not cheese.

robin1234 Aug 17th 2021 3:03 pm

Re: Afghanistan
 
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.pre...ity-1.10123229

Very interesting and informative article about the Afghanistan situation from Ha’aretz. It’s largely about the new opportunities afforded to Israel by the Taliban takeover, for instance of strengthening ties with Sunni governments in the region who may feel threatened by renewed Afghan hosting of Al Qaeda or other terrorist organizations.

One tidbit in the article - we know the Taliban will benefit from quantities of abandoned US equipment. The article mentions that many Afghan units entered Iran to surrender there, so Iran will benefit from US military goodies too.

What this article reminded me of, is the poor quality of US & British reporting on Afghanistan. The Ha’aretz reporter really gets into the weeds of different ethnic groups & different regions in Afghanistan, and their different relationships with the Taliban, and with different neighbors such as Iran. Haven’t seen any of that in the Guardian or WaPo in recent days. For instance, this article talks a lot about Baluchistan, a majority Sunni region shared between Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan. Apparently Israeli mossad have been active there for decades. This is a border that many Afghan refugees have crossed, many wish to stay in Iran, but Iran would rather shuffle them onward to Turkey and Europe.

Bipat Aug 17th 2021 3:35 pm

Re: Afghanistan
 

Originally Posted by robin1234 (Post 13041499)
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.pre...ity-1.10123229

Very interesting and informative article about the Afghanistan situation from Ha’aretz. It’s largely about the new opportunities afforded to Israel by the Taliban takeover, for instance of strengthening ties with Sunni governments in the region who may feel threatened by renewed Afghan hosting of Al Qaeda or other terrorist organizations.

One tidbit in the article - we know the Taliban will benefit from quantities of abandoned US equipment. The article mentions that many Afghan units entered Iran to surrender there, so Iran will benefit from US military goodies too.

What this article reminded me of, is the poor quality of US & British reporting on Afghanistan. The Ha’aretz reporter really gets into the weeds of different ethnic groups & different regions in Afghanistan, and their different relationships with the Taliban, and with different neighbors such as Iran. Haven’t seen any of that in the Guardian or WaPo in recent days. For instance, this article talks a lot about Baluchistan, a majority Sunni region shared between Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan. Apparently Israeli mossad have been active there for decades. This is a border that many Afghan refugees have crossed, many wish to stay in Iran, but Iran would rather shuffle them onward to Turkey and Europe.


Interesting article.

However an alarming statement from PM of Pakistan.

Taliban have broken ‘the shackles of slavery,’ says Pakistan PM Imran Khan (msn.com)

Is this the PM speaking, or the army chiefs (who are actually in control)?

Considering that the Taliban already occupy an area of Pakistan oppressing the local population and the amount of terrorism in that country it is worrying.

morpeth Aug 17th 2021 4:41 pm

Re: Afghanistan
 

Originally Posted by robin1234 (Post 13041265)
Yes, my apologies, I was really responding to the other poster, and didn’t mean to quote you.

You are right that announcing you are going to withdraw is a poor negotiating tactic! Trump was not the savviest of negotiators - he wasn’t one to listen to his advisors.

Trump certainly a wild card, his unorthodox style sometimes could get results sometimes not- might be a New York thing somewhat, I have in business come across fellows like him. Biden I don't really know how much he grasps but presumably he listens to advisors more. I don't get impression either is well-read, nor any better- any worse than those that came before them as far as Afghanistan . I have heard a lot of military guys over the year complain about strategy or tactics or rules of engagement employee in the war - but truly why aren't members of the foreign policy establishment like this Blinken fellow ever called account ?

I know Presidents can make the final call in set the tone, but the idea that the top generals an the State department don't share the blame, or even more so, would surprise me.

philat98 Aug 17th 2021 4:45 pm

Re: Afghanistan
 
Another interesting item about plans to build a gas pipeline. US oil companies would be paying the Taliban for their support.
https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-...ers-1.10124118

kimilseung Aug 17th 2021 5:27 pm

Re: Afghanistan
 
Several networks have journalists working from Kabul, including women, filming Taliban openly. Others have journalists reporting from the "Middle East" which I suppose isn't too far away, though I wonder what advantage it might bring. Newsmax has a "foreign correspondent", reporting from Rome

Jerseygirl Aug 17th 2021 5:40 pm

Re: Afghanistan
 

Originally Posted by kimilseung (Post 13041557)
Several networks have journalists working from Kabul, including women, filming Taliban openly. Others have journalists reporting from the "Middle East" which I suppose isn't too far away, though I wonder what advantage it might bring. Newsmax has a "foreign correspondent", reporting from Rome

There was a woman reporter on TV last night. She was told to get out of the way and that her entire face should be covered. :blink:

kimilseung Aug 17th 2021 6:11 pm

Re: Afghanistan
 

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl (Post 13041561)
There was a woman reporter on TV last night. She was told to get out of the way and that her entire face should be covered. :blink:

so I see, depends on which Taliban peeps they talk too. I suppose we will have to wait and see what the over riding policy will be.

caretaker Aug 17th 2021 6:13 pm

Re: Afghanistan
 
Some veterans of the war feel predictably let down. When it started, the Canadian government did some polls to discover how much death the public would tolerate before ceasing to support the war. The answer was 230 dead Canadian soldiers. The total killed to date is 159 (incl 3 suicides), but the number of soldiers who have committed suicide since coming back is more than those lost overseas, and the number damaged so severely both mentally and physically that they can't cope will surely far exceed that.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/first...eran-1.6142945


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