morpeth

Very good point , Pakistan seems to have been so consistent in direct and indirect support from its intelligence service that one has to wonder about US policy in relation to Pakistan over the years.

As far as being a beautiful country, just my own observation, it is a land of contrasts- some parts beautiful, some downright sparse and unappealing, and the air of violence probably has always been there. I travelled there years ago accompanied by two Pakistani soldiers, sitting having tea and watching 12 year old boys marching around with local made/modified Enfield type rifles ( or maybe just actual Enfield rifles I don't know), Travelling from Peshawar into Afghanistan and seeing homes up the hill with old cannons was among my first sights- and this was years before the Americans came. But longing for home not an uncommon sentiment wherever home might be.

robin1234

No doubt. But, if offered a COVID vaccine, would they take it? If they went to a pizza restaurant with no basement, would they demand to see the basement? (Etc)

robin1234

I read a couple of articles yesterday that said that the military have been telling the administration and the State Dept for a couple of weeks that this would happen very quickly, but to no avail. WaPo and NPR, maybe.

johnwoo

The more disturbing thing is their beliefs in the role of women and girls. They are the ones most likely to suffer the most.

robin1234

I’m pretty sure Trump got rid of most of the Afghanistan specialists from the State Department. That was part of the reason why we ended up here.

caretaker

Rep Barbara Lee's speech in Congress Sept 14, 2001

scrubbedexpat091

Air Force Plane with locals trying to get onto it as it taxis to depart.

https://www.reddit.com/r/interesting...e_as_it_takes/

caretaker

The video of the people falling from altitude after trying to hang on was pretty disturbing. It didn't help that it was posted over and over.

scrubbedexpat091

I have so far avoiding watching that video, I did see the comments about it, but didn't click the links.

DXBtoDOH

You are ignoring, of course, the billions and billions spent by the US, the UK and other nations on rebuilding Afghanistan's infrastructure.

I should know because my company helped provide some of the engineering drawings for new roads and bridges. There was genuine effort by many countries and NGOs to rebuild Afghanistan on more liberal grounds.

Mind you, even in those days (circa 2008-2012) everyone I knew who was involved all frankly admitted it was going to waste once the Taliban took back control. No one believed there was a lasting future in Afghanistan.

DXBtoDOH

You guessed wrong.

The US intelligence and military did everything they could to stop Trump from starting the withdrawal from Afghanistan. However, the fine details of the actual final stages of the withdrawal are Biden's problems, not Trump. Because Biden is president and his administration had the lead. They screwed up massively.

morpeth

I realize that might be a satisfying conjecture from a partisan point of view, however I note (a) the current Secretary of State and not a few political appointees were in the Obama or previous administrations (b) according to civil service regulations and union contracts, not that easy to wholesale get rid of bureaucrats - if I recall reports that Pompeo under Trump simply tries to bypass State department career staff (c) many of the top Generals today were specifically involved in Afghanistan the last 20 years-surely they can't blame everything on White House meddling.

My own view is that the disgrace of all this is not a partisan issue as both Republican and Democrat administrations appear to have handled the situation unsuccessfully.

I admit a bit of bias- I have dealt with some State department employees and 'specialists', I wasn't impressed.

Anyway at some point in the future when more evidence available, analysis and memoirs, will be interesting who advised what and when.

robin1234

I “guessed”?

It is simply the truth. Trump and his minions got rid of regional specialists from the State Dept., including the Afghanistan offices.

If this is descending into some stupid partisan bun fight, I’m totally out of here.

morpeth

My comments were decidedly non-partisan, and the regional specialists you refer too many would have been place in the Obama administration, whether they were fired or not ( most I assume would simply have been transferred to other positions) I am not really sure we have much evidence based on results these 'specialists' really were too sharp in recommended strategies that could be executed, and executed successfully- hence I am not sure the degree ( if such firings occurred) ho much real difference it made. Just as I am unsure why top Generals, as opposed to the rank and file, shouldn't be held to account for any leadership mistakes. ( I have a hard time assuming that everything can be placed at the door of Biden ,Trump or Obama, all three who inherited the situation.)

Most military guys I have come across have told me announcing when one is going to withdraw, whether by Trump ir Biden a poor negotiating tactic and even worse military one.

Recently an article in Foreign Policy ,while discussing the issues State Department employees had with the Trump administration, referred to a recent poll of 3,000 state department employees indicating a surprising number considering leaving currently due to various issues and long-standing ones , within the State department. However you may be entirely correct as I do not know the extent of which Afghan specialists lost state department positions.

Certainly Biden can be considered by his own decisions.

robin1234

Yes, my apologies, I was really responding to the other poster, and didn’t mean to quote you.

You are right that announcing you are going to withdraw is a poor negotiating tactic! Trump was not the savviest of negotiators - he wasn’t one to listen to his advisors.