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Afghanistan

Old Sep 11th 2021, 6:03 pm
  #376  
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Default Re: Afghanistan

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
A man or a woman. you choose, sits at a desk in a tower in New York, incinerated by an airplane guided by a man as it explodes through the wall of their workplace.

A man or a woman, you choose, waits for him to get home from wherever, incinerated by a drone guided by a man/woman as it explodes through the wall of their home.

Tomorrow we will be enveloped in a media swamp of sympathy for the first.

Tomorrow we will be enveloped in governmental excuses for collateral damage for the second.

Each of these deserves our attention in equal measure, but they won't get it.
Assuming that case two is not a consequence of case one.
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Old Sep 11th 2021, 6:04 pm
  #377  
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Default Re: Afghanistan

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
Not sure I would want to rely on that
No, but it’s obviously true.
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Old Sep 11th 2021, 7:10 pm
  #378  
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Default Re: Afghanistan

A man who fled Afghanistan with his family when the Soviets, fast forward to 9/11 and he was in the US Marines, a short video with his perspective and some flashback interviews with him from 2001.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2021/0...11-gr-orig.cnn
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Old Sep 15th 2021, 12:41 pm
  #379  
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Default Re: Afghanistan

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/15/w...r-Taliban.html

Interesting article from today’s New York Times.

But since the Taliban takeover in mid-August, the majority of Afghanistan’s countryside has seen a substantial drop in violence. Where airstrikes and pitched battles would be commonplace, the guns have fallen silent. The checkpoints have mostly disappeared. In their place is a developing humanitarian crisis and a new Taliban government that at times seems just as unaccustomed to governing as many Afghans are to living in a period without fighting.
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Old Sep 15th 2021, 12:50 pm
  #380  
 
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Default Re: Afghanistan

Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/15/w...r-Taliban.html

Interesting article from today’s New York Times.

No government, no infrastructure, no national systems.

The war may have stopped, but the violence will be back, inevitably. And in the meantime, the humanitarian crisis.
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Old Sep 15th 2021, 12:59 pm
  #381  
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Default Re: Afghanistan

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse View Post
It's the fundamentalist Taliban's extreme interpretation of sharia law that is shit, not Islam.
It is ironic whether in Afghanistan or Iran or Saudi Arabia key Islamic clerics all accept Sharia law as Islamic -if not derived from Islam and Islamic traditions and jurisprudence , what is then its source ?
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Old Sep 15th 2021, 1:17 pm
  #382  
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Default Re: Afghanistan

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
No government, no infrastructure, no national systems.

The war may have stopped, but the violence will be back, inevitably. And in the meantime, the humanitarian crisis.
It is significant that ordinary rural people are able to go about their daily business without being caught in the crossfire or targeted by a drone, though, for the first time in twenty years. And one of the interviews in the article is with a hospital administrator, who hopes that the foreign philanthropic sources of his funding will continue, meanwhile, he’s not getting civilian casualties of military action through the door. So there is some hope.
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Old Sep 15th 2021, 1:22 pm
  #383  
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Default Re: Afghanistan

Von der Leyen: EU must acquire ‘political will’ to build own military
European Commission president’s state of union speech urges bloc to learn lessons from US withdrawal from Afghanistan

​​​​​​Two European commissioners, Margrethe Vestager from Denmark and Ylva Johansson from Sweden, brought some knitting to do as they listened. The issue of Brexit or the EU’s relationship with the UK, a stock part of such speeches since 2016, was not raised.

​​​​​​https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...d-own-military

Wonder what they were knitting?


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Old Sep 15th 2021, 1:29 pm
  #384  
 
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Default Re: Afghanistan

Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
It is significant that ordinary rural people are able to go about their daily business without being caught in the crossfire or targeted by a drone, though, for the first time in twenty years. And one of the interviews in the article is with a hospital administrator, who hopes that the foreign philanthropic sources of his funding will continue, meanwhile, he’s not getting civilian casualties of military action through the door. So there is some hope.
Sure, having a war being fought by others in your country is never a good thing.

On the other hand, having your country "run" by a group of right-wing religious zealots with zero respect for women and other human rights, not so much. The fact that that particular war has stopped does not make what is following any better, although it might make it different. Mussolini made the trains run on time, etc. This is not a long term recipe for peace and prosperity.
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Old Sep 15th 2021, 3:06 pm
  #385  
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Default Re: Afghanistan

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
Von der Leyen: EU must acquire ‘political will’ to build own military
European Commission president’s state of union speech urges bloc to learn lessons from US withdrawal from Afghanistan

​​​​​​Two European commissioners, Margrethe Vestager from Denmark and Ylva Johansson from Sweden, brought some knitting to do as they listened. The issue of Brexit or the EU’s relationship with the UK, a stock part of such speeches since 2016, was not raised.

​​​​​​https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...d-own-military

Wonder what they were knitting?
I believe both those women have grandchildren …
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Old Sep 18th 2021, 3:14 am
  #386  
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Default Re: Afghanistan

Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
It is significant that ordinary rural people are able to go about their daily business without being caught in the crossfire or targeted by a drone, though, for the first time in twenty years. And one of the interviews in the article is with a hospital administrator, who hopes that the foreign philanthropic sources of his funding will continue, meanwhile, he’s not getting civilian casualties of military action through the door. So there is some hope.
​​​​​​​​​​​​Taliban ban girls from secondary education in Afghanistan

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...in-afghanistan
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Old Sep 18th 2021, 12:00 pm
  #387  
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Default Re: Afghanistan

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
​​​​​​​​​​​​Taliban ban girls from secondary education in Afghanistan

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...in-afghanistan
Exactly. The rub is, both are true. Life is complicated.
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Old Sep 18th 2021, 3:52 pm
  #388  
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Default Re: Afghanistan

The Taliban may wish to put women back into the box but Pandora will have her say in this.

Mothers will teach their daughters, unofficial schools will proliferate, the world at large will apply pressure (for a while at least) and while the Taliban will attempt to recreate the state they had 20 years ago it will not be the same.

And it's not just women. Men will have become used to having intelligent women, most of whom will have done a job better and more efficiently than their lazy entitled male equivalent and in those dark spaces where nobody can hear there'll be whispers of hankering for the days when the job got done without the need to reach for the AK47.

But what do I know?

Like almost everybody here I've never been to Afghanistan and know only what appears on the 'media' and this arrives through so many filters that you have to wonder what doesn't get reported.

What we do witness are Taliban patrolling streets armed to the teeth, but this can't be true everywhere all the time, there must be areas where the Taliban writ is second to tribal oversight.

And the Taliban army, well these men will need to be paid, given something useful to do and once the exhilaration of winning a war becomes stale, returning to the farm or being told what to do might not be quite so attractive.

Men do things in war that become outlawed in peace and keeping an army of frustrated men occupied isn't going to be easy, no wonder the cry went out to keep women and girls off the street for their own protection.

The Taliban have a tiger by the tail, it might be calm now, but there'll always be the realisation that for so many life was different before they took over.

On the international stage we've seen with North Korea that it's possible for a nation state to exist without international help and it remains to be seen who'll rally to be friends with the White Flag, who'll fund their needs, who'll dare contract within the state.

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Old Sep 18th 2021, 4:33 pm
  #389  
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Default Re: Afghanistan

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
The Taliban may wish to put women back into the box but Pandora will have her say in this.
Mothers will teach their daughters, unofficial schools will proliferate, the world at large will apply pressure (for a while at least) and while the Taliban will attempt to recreate the state they had 20 years ago it will not be the same.
Just wondering why it will not be the same this time?
I dont remember my Afghan history enough, but wasnt there a time in the seventies and eighties when many woman were going to University, getting an education, under Babrak Karmal and Najibullah? Maybe the repeated interations of access have solidified the expectation?
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Old Sep 18th 2021, 7:11 pm
  #390  
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Default Re: Afghanistan

Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
Just wondering why it will not be the same this time?
I dont remember my Afghan history enough, but wasnt there a time in the seventies and eighties when many woman were going to University, getting an education, under Babrak Karmal and Najibullah? Maybe the repeated interations of access have solidified the expectation?
I think it'll be different this time around because social media is a great agent for support and communication, but you may be correct and intimidation and fear of and by the government agencies, the police and the roving thug, will once again exert a restraint on what we would call normal life.

But of course we fall into the trap of judging Aghanistan by our standards and values and I've no doubt that there are many, men and women, who welcome the return of Taliban values. But who am I to judge whether they're worse or better than my own, however what our interference in Afghanistan has done is to introduce alien values that aren't compatible with Taliban thinking and this will have sown seeds of discontent that won't go away very quickly.






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