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Scamp Aug 25th 2021 8:28 am

Re: Afghanistan
 

Originally Posted by Nand (Post 13043944)
I said Muslim because having lived in a Muslim country myself, the family size is a factor! Extended families live together with servants and more than one wife plus children means European housing is going to be inadequate and much too expensive for even employed top drawer english speakers from Afganistan.

gI'm just seeing a chasm between reality and ideas in what people are imagining 20,000 refugees will need and how in the world it is possible. I think those who leave willbe most likely young single men, hence why the severe restrictions and checking before planes are filled with people trying to leave.

Wish it were more simple and just throwing money and plane tickets would solve this.

Jesus wept. This is just such bollocks, especially considering the country in discussion.
Yes, it can be more likely to support families - parents etc but the average Afghanb eing evacuated isn't what you describe.


Originally Posted by kimilseung (Post 13043960)
Are they poor or rich, because you have to have a few bob to have more than one wife. In this Muslim country that you lived in how many people did you meet with more than one wife? In this Muslim country that you lived in how many poor people did you meet with more than one wife?

Very, very, very few.


Originally Posted by Nand (Post 13043964)
Two living rooms, as mixing of non family with women isn't done, and that is not the very conservative muslims, just normal. A very large kitchen, servant bedroom near it. Even we had a maid, never in my life before, very inexpensive too. Ensuite for inlaws and wives. Looking for rentals without two huge living rooms, not possible.

I doubt girls and women will be leaving their homes and families as refugees. It isn't just rich people that live this way.

The thing is you will have more single men from this culture and they will be ready to leave, having learned a bit about western culture and some English from their cell phones.

The average Afghan doesn't have multiple living rooms, a separate majlis for hosting, 'servant' quarters and several bedrooms for extended family.

What you describe is almost certainly not the norm. It can be in some Gulf states, but I didn't see many of these types scrambling at the airport.

Annetje Aug 25th 2021 12:23 pm

Re: Afghanistan
 
Job well done : the Taliban is now arguably the best armed militant group in modern history.



philat98 Aug 25th 2021 3:59 pm

Re: Afghanistan
 
An article in Haaretz claims there was quite a bit of fraud involved in the arms sales. Millions of dollars of reconditioned planes were supplied that were very soon sold for scrap.

morpeth Aug 25th 2021 4:10 pm

Re: Afghanistan
 

Originally Posted by dakota44 (Post 13044118)
You still miss the point. The current administration was handcuffed by the agreement that TRUMP agreed to, and his administration signed. Had he not done that, things would have been different.

funny biden had no problem reversing various other trump policies, and there is a question whether the taliban lived up that prior agreement.

in any case, Biden is the president now and he has cowardly and stupidly decided on this path- which by all accounts will leave American citizens and Afghan translators behind, and reduce our relationship with America's allies, and build morale of adversaries, and show that relying on America's word and honor isn't worth it.

one can argue whether Trump or Biden's decision to leave was the right decision- but there is absolutely nothing stopping Biden to lay down the law to the Taliban and put every resource available in for the evacuation.



dave_j Aug 25th 2021 7:00 pm

Re: Afghanistan
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 13044315)
funny biden had no problem reversing various other trump policies, and there is a question whether the taliban lived up that prior agreement.
in any case, Biden is the president now and he has cowardly and stupidly decided on this path- which by all accounts will leave American citizens and Afghan translators behind, and reduce our relationship with America's allies, and build morale of adversaries, and show that relying on America's word and honor isn't worth it.
one can argue whether Trump or Biden's decision to leave was the right decision- but there is absolutely nothing stopping Biden to lay down the law to the Taliban and put every resource available in for the evacuation.

Biden is a political animal and his decisions won't be based on what's the right thing to do but on what he considers to be the least worst outcome.

He has a history of wanting to end the Afghanistan adventure and has taken this opportunity to get it done... but he doesn't want it to go on too long because that means more immigration of discontented afghans, so he sets a time limit and blames the Taliban for being obdurate.

The truth is that he knows that while the average US citizen will accept a limited influx of afghans, what they won't accept is an extended flood, even if those included are owed safe sanctuary on the basis of past promises made.

He will be aware that there are a great many poor americans, americans who vote democrat, who'll be appalled if they witness refugees being given something they have to pay for.

They'll be hearing tales of refugees getting free heath care, housing etc from the likes of Fox and other politicians with axes to grind and we can expect more of this in the future.

Biden will seek to maximise tales of an evacuation well done, of hard stories made good by evacuation, but his worries about immigration, that I believe have been driving his decision making, have greatly upset his allies who are simply tails being wagged by the US dog.

All of these decisions are driven by the need to win upcoming US elections, and the next round will be close enough for ripples from the Afghanistan defeat/evacuation/misinformation to still be washing up at the mid-term shore in 2022.






scrubbedexpat091 Aug 25th 2021 8:12 pm

Re: Afghanistan
 
How long after the US pulls out until drones start to target the bases where aircraft are?

Upside these aircraft are not simple to fly or maintain, but I imagine at least some of the Afghans trained to fly them, will end up with the Taliban but still, doubt the Taliban is capable of maintaining them and getting parts to keep them airworthy, the amount of maintenance military aircraft need compared to flying time can be quite high, so time will tell if the Taliban even have the ability to keep them airworthy or fly them.

robin1234 Aug 25th 2021 8:20 pm

Re: Afghanistan
 

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 13044427)
How long after the US pulls out until drones start to target the bases where aircraft are?

Upside these aircraft are not simple to fly or maintain, but I imagine at least some of the Afghans trained to fly them, will end up with the Taliban but still, doubt the Taliban is capable of maintaining them and getting parts to keep them airworthy, the amount of maintenance military aircraft need compared to flying time can be quite high, so time will tell if the Taliban even have the ability to keep them airworthy or fly them.

All fair comment.

I guess we need to gradually transition from saying “the Taliban” to saying “the Afghan government.”

scrubbedexpat091 Aug 25th 2021 8:23 pm

Re: Afghanistan
 
Has the Taliban opened the roads going to the airport?

Last night it was being reported the Taliban was only letting foreign nationals enter the airport, and was going to refuse to let Afghans to pass, saying something along the lines of doctors, academics and such need to stay in Afghanistan and not go to the west.



scrubbedexpat091 Aug 25th 2021 8:26 pm

Re: Afghanistan
 

Originally Posted by robin1234 (Post 13044429)
All fair comment.

I guess we need to gradually transition from saying “the Taliban” to saying “the Afghan government.”

With the aircraft I would be less worried about the Taliban, and more worried about the Taliban selling the aircraft to North Korea, Iran, seems that would be the smartest solution for the Taliban anyhow, and get them a nice pile of extra cash to sit on.

Lion in Winter Aug 25th 2021 9:25 pm

Re: Afghanistan
 
I thought this was an insightful and interesting piece on the situation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-58071592

Former Lancastrian Aug 25th 2021 9:31 pm

Re: Afghanistan
 
Waiting for a story in a few months time where somebody will be bitching about how one of these Afghans is a terrorist and was never fully screened.

kimilseung Aug 25th 2021 11:16 pm

Re: Afghanistan
 

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 13044435)
With the aircraft I would be less worried about the Taliban, and more worried about the Taliban selling the aircraft to North Korea, Iran, seems that would be the smartest solution for the Taliban anyhow, and get them a nice pile of extra cash to sit on.

I doubt they would sell them to Iran (too likely that they would be used by Iran against Afghanistan), but your point that they may be a cash source is probably true.

kimilseung Aug 25th 2021 11:19 pm

Re: Afghanistan
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 13044450)
Waiting for a story in a few months time where somebody will be bitching about how one of these Afghans is a terrorist and was never fully screened.

Dont you read the news?

Afghanistan: Person on no-fly list flown to UK during Kabul evacuation
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58311964

Former Lancastrian Aug 26th 2021 12:23 am

Re: Afghanistan
 

Originally Posted by kimilseung (Post 13044474)
Dont you read the news?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58311964

Yes I saw that but there are numerous people in Canada on No Fly lists because of a common or very close name & DOB. None of these people are actually terrorists or a security threat.

scrubbedexpat091 Aug 26th 2021 1:56 am

Re: Afghanistan
 

Originally Posted by kimilseung (Post 13044473)
I doubt they would sell them to Iran (too likely that they would be used by Iran against Afghanistan), but your point that they may be a cash source is probably true.

Good point, I just randomly chose a couple countries as examples so I didn't research anything into which country may be the most likely, the whole thought of selling them came to me pretty randomly as well.


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