Go Back  British Expats > General > Take it Outside!
Reload this Page >

39 Vietnamese from Zeebrugge

39 Vietnamese from Zeebrugge

Old Oct 26th 2019, 10:14 pm
  #76  
F.orum Ape
Thread Starter
 
Shard's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 18,910
Shard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: 39 Vietnamese from Zeebrugge

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Voila! Yet some Brexiters think it'll be easy to check every vehicle coming to the UK under a no-deal Brexit. I get the math, you get the math, but some don't.

Regarding these unfortunate deaths, a lack of checks emboldens people like smuggling gangs. While I have sympathy for the families of the victims, I'm not sure how sympathetic I am towards those who paid to be smuggled into the UK. And I definitely have no sympathy for the driver if, as it seems to appear, that he was part of the smuggling ring.
I think we still need to be sympathetic. I imagine the risks were completely downplayed. "It's just a 4 hour lorry ride, dark, but safe, and then you're in the UK" something like that. Probably 99 times out of 100 that's exactly what it is. However, I think incidents like these can be used to highlight the real risks back in Vietnam or wherever.
Shard is online now  
Old Oct 26th 2019, 10:28 pm
  #77  
Jigsaw
 
DaveLovesDee's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Abertawe, Cymru, Y Deyrnas Unedig, Undeb Ewropeaidd
Posts: 19,116
DaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: 39 Vietnamese from Zeebrugge

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
I think we still need to be sympathetic. I imagine the risks were completely downplayed. "It's just a 4 hour lorry ride, dark, but safe, and then you're in the UK" something like that. Probably 99 times out of 100 that's exactly what it is. However, I think incidents like these can be used to highlight the real risks back in Vietnam or wherever.
I am somewhat sympathetic, but I'm finding it difficult to comprehend how desperate one needs to be in a first-world country such as Belgium to want spend 4 hours in a darkened box without fresh airflow and no guarantee of the doors being opened on time. I can appreciate it'd be much easier to work under the radar in the UK than in other EU member states though.

DaveLovesDee is offline  
Old Oct 26th 2019, 10:32 pm
  #78  
F.orum Ape
Thread Starter
 
Shard's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 18,910
Shard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: 39 Vietnamese from Zeebrugge

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
I am somewhat sympathetic, but I'm finding it difficult to comprehend how desperate one needs to be in a first-world country such as Belgium to want spend 4 hours in a darkened box without fresh airflow and no guarantee of the doors being opened on time. I can appreciate it'd be much easier to work under the radar in the UK than in other EU member states though.
Yes, after the fact it does seem like a crazy choice, and I've wondered that too. It must just be misjudgement. There was some talk of three lorries in a convoy making this crossing. If there are a few hundred lorries a year that make it through without tragedy, you can see why they might be willing to take their chances. Look at all the boat refugees where the risk is completely obvious, and yet they take it. Apparently there is a large Vietnamese community in the UK and they graviate towards that. Good article in the BBC site now.
Shard is online now  
Old Oct 26th 2019, 10:49 pm
  #79  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Boiler's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 31,453
Boiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: 39 Vietnamese from Zeebrugge

Inspection is a cost of doing business, if the fees are insufficient to properly carry out the task increase the fees, with so many deaths difficult to see there would be much in the way of complaints.
Boiler is online now  
Old Oct 26th 2019, 10:57 pm
  #80  
F.orum Ape
Thread Starter
 
Shard's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 18,910
Shard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: 39 Vietnamese from Zeebrugge

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
Inspection is a cost of doing business, if the fees are insufficient to properly carry out the task increase the fees, with so many deaths difficult to see there would be much in the way of complaints.
Were it that simple. As costs go up, customers buy less and/or companies relocate. Complaints from those affected would come fast and furious.
Shard is online now  
Old Oct 26th 2019, 11:26 pm
  #81  
Jigsaw
 
DaveLovesDee's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Abertawe, Cymru, Y Deyrnas Unedig, Undeb Ewropeaidd
Posts: 19,116
DaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: 39 Vietnamese from Zeebrugge

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Yes, after the fact it does seem like a crazy choice, and I've wondered that too. It must just be misjudgement. There was some talk of three lorries in a convoy making this crossing. If there are a few hundred lorries a year that make it through without tragedy, you can see why they might be willing to take their chances. Look at all the boat refugees where the risk is completely obvious, and yet they take it. Apparently there is a large Vietnamese community in the UK and they graviate towards that. Good article in the BBC site now.
One of the reports I read said the trailer had come over as an unaccompanied (without truck and driver), and that the driver and truck came down from Northern Ireland to pick the trailer up at the port.

I can understand how bad the conditions are in Vietnam, but these were in a first-world country.
DaveLovesDee is offline  
Old Oct 27th 2019, 12:00 am
  #82  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Boiler's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 31,453
Boiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: 39 Vietnamese from Zeebrugge

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Were it that simple. As costs go up, customers buy less and/or companies relocate. Complaints from those affected would come fast and furious.
A company taking this approach would be destroyed in the media.
Boiler is online now  
Old Oct 27th 2019, 12:48 am
  #83  
F.orum Ape
Thread Starter
 
Shard's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 18,910
Shard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: 39 Vietnamese from Zeebrugge

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
A company taking this approach would be destroyed in the media.
Not at all. It wouldn't happen overnight, and the complaints would be on over-onerous security charges, delays, logistics, not directly refuting the need to detect stowaways.
Shard is online now  
Old Oct 27th 2019, 1:04 am
  #84  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Boiler's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 31,453
Boiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond reputeBoiler has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: 39 Vietnamese from Zeebrugge

How can it be over onerous when only 1% are checked and so many have died.
Boiler is online now  
Old Oct 27th 2019, 1:24 am
  #85  
F.orum Ape
Thread Starter
 
Shard's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 18,910
Shard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: 39 Vietnamese from Zeebrugge

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
How can it be over onerous when only 1% are checked and so many have died.
I'm not saying inspection rates can't be increased from 1%, but your initial comment was rather open ended: increase inspection spending until it's done "properly" and pass on the charges. We don't know how many people are passing illegally through the port, who's not to say this tragedy is not a very small % to begin with. The fact is that a port is an economic bottleneck, and that lost business (for whatever reason) is going to have a huge impact on the country as a whole. If factories threaten to close to down because importing becomes uneconomic, do you think politicians and the public are going to support costly "proper" screening of illegals? There are always limits to safety investment. The rail and tube lines are in desperate need of upgrade, fatalities occur, why
​​​​​isn't the money going in to that ?
Shard is online now  
Old Oct 27th 2019, 3:57 am
  #86  
SUPER MODERATOR
 
moneypenny20's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 63,732
moneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: 39 Vietnamese from Zeebrugge

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
I think we still need to be sympathetic. I imagine the risks were completely downplayed. "It's just a 4 hour lorry ride, dark, but safe, and then you're in the UK" something like that. Probably 99 times out of 100 that's exactly what it is. However, I think incidents like these can be used to highlight the real risks back in Vietnam or wherever.
I read a report from the family of one of the girls in the container (no idea where so can't find the link) that the amount they paid for her to get to the UK was huge and they honestly believed she would be travelling by air - in a seat in the cabin - and was getting a legitimate visa.
moneypenny20 is offline  
Old Oct 27th 2019, 5:47 am
  #87  
idealist
 
stevenglish1's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,480
stevenglish1 has a reputation beyond reputestevenglish1 has a reputation beyond reputestevenglish1 has a reputation beyond reputestevenglish1 has a reputation beyond reputestevenglish1 has a reputation beyond reputestevenglish1 has a reputation beyond reputestevenglish1 has a reputation beyond reputestevenglish1 has a reputation beyond reputestevenglish1 has a reputation beyond reputestevenglish1 has a reputation beyond reputestevenglish1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: 39 Vietnamese from Zeebrugge

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
I think we still need to be sympathetic. I imagine the risks were completely downplayed. "It's just a 4 hour lorry ride, dark, but safe, and then you're in the UK" something like that. Probably 99 times out of 100 that's exactly what it is. However, I think incidents like these can be used to highlight the real risks back in Vietnam or wherever.
We definitely need to be sympathetic. Whether paying people smugglers or going it alone these people risk everything to get a better life. I witnessed first hand a guy falling off a train at Eurotunnel, massive head injuries and wheelchair bound for life. Not my favourite memory, and I can only surmise what he was running away from must've been pretty horrific.
stevenglish1 is online now  
Old Oct 27th 2019, 7:46 am
  #88  
Who - me?
 
Red Eric's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Arcos de Valdevez "Onde Portugal se fez"
Posts: 10,901
Red Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: 39 Vietnamese from Zeebrugge

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
The UK does not have ID cards or compulsory registration as in other EU states, so it is easier for migrants to slip into the "black economy". Neither of these would turn the UK into a "police state", but would go a long way to controlling illegal migration or making illegal working more difficult.
Doesn't it? Not for non EU citizens?
Red Eric is offline  
Old Oct 27th 2019, 8:04 am
  #89  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Dubai
Posts: 3,380
jam25mack has a reputation beyond reputejam25mack has a reputation beyond reputejam25mack has a reputation beyond reputejam25mack has a reputation beyond reputejam25mack has a reputation beyond reputejam25mack has a reputation beyond reputejam25mack has a reputation beyond reputejam25mack has a reputation beyond reputejam25mack has a reputation beyond reputejam25mack has a reputation beyond reputejam25mack has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: 39 Vietnamese from Zeebrugge

How about instead of inspecting the truck on arrival they are checked on the ferry ride over....How many trucks are on a RoRo? 200? More? A team of 10 could easily manage to go and have a looksee in the back of each trailer in the time it takes to get across the channel. They could then flag any suspicious ones for further inspection / Xray on arrival.
jam25mack is offline  
Old Oct 27th 2019, 8:44 am
  #90  
Concierge
 
mikelincs's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2006
Location: ex ex-pat, in Taunton
Posts: 22,903
mikelincs has a reputation beyond reputemikelincs has a reputation beyond reputemikelincs has a reputation beyond reputemikelincs has a reputation beyond reputemikelincs has a reputation beyond reputemikelincs has a reputation beyond reputemikelincs has a reputation beyond reputemikelincs has a reputation beyond reputemikelincs has a reputation beyond reputemikelincs has a reputation beyond reputemikelincs has a reputation beyond repute
Default re: 39 Vietnamese from Zeebrugge

All fabric sided trailers are checked with CO2 testers, but This was a steel refrigerator container and they would have had to break into it as it would have been locked. They do x ray any container they consider 'suspicious' but as it would have been unmarked and on a UK based tractor and trailer perhaps that would have been less likely to have been checked.
mikelincs is offline  

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.