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On the 1st of November, we will be....

View Poll Results: Where will we stand on 1st Novemeber?
Out of the EU, with an agreement in place
9.68%
Out of the EU in a disorderly manner
32.26%
Still in the EU
58.06%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

On the 1st of November, we will be....

Old Sep 5th 2019, 7:56 am
  #91  
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Default Re: On the 1st of November, we will be....

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
It hasn't reached its "use by" date yet, although it looks at this stage like the 52% might have it.
It's definitely shaky. It's a sniff and smells OK but taste and might be gone.
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Old Sep 5th 2019, 7:57 am
  #92  
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Default Re: On the 1st of November, we will be....

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
It's definitely shaky. It's a sniff and smells OK but taste and might be gone.
A hint of bitterness?
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Old Sep 5th 2019, 8:10 am
  #93  
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Default Re: On the 1st of November, we will be....

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
A hint of bitterness?
Oh yes, that's it. More than just a hint.
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Old Sep 5th 2019, 8:35 am
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Default Re: On the 1st of November, we will be....

I wouldn’t be too hasty. Still everything to play for as we move into the final round.
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Old Sep 5th 2019, 8:35 am
  #95  
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Default Re: On the 1st of November, we will be....

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
It hasn't reached its "use by" date yet, although it looks at this stage like the 52% might have it.
... Unusually glum Eric?
Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
So..... this aged like milk eh?
I'm sticking by my thoughts that the damage from delay after delay is now obvious. The UK is reportedly on the edge of recession.
Leaving, whilst a stupid and horrible idea altogether, must be done as it's the will of the idiots people.
No deal, getting out, getting on with lives and rallying around like it's the ****ing blitz is exactly what they all wanted. Let's do it. A bit of 'what made Britain Great' stuff.
IF then it all goes wrong, we collectively band together, blame Europe and beg Trump to lick his fat orange nuts until he throws some bones....we could call them reparations.
OK, fun aside. Leaving without a deal is potentially catastrophic, but continuing the humiliating delays, bun fighting between parties and lack of any clear leadership is probably going to end up just as bad, spread out over a longer period of time.
Whilst BoJo is not the cup of tea everyone would drink, nor has he really gone about anything with a straight bat which is disgraceful...I do however totally admire the pig headed desire to get the UK out of the EU so we can all move on with life and start to rebuild the post-apocalyptic disaster islands we are left with.
Whatever happens with what looks like a GE coming, we need someone who's got the nuts to ****ing get to grip with this and thrash out a deal (which remember is ****ing temporary) or just ****ing fall out backwards, pissing on ourselves. Either way, this purgatory has to end.
The people, on either side, can have what they want by dissolution of the UK back into its four nations. This will clear the failed fiction of a united kingdom from the situation and clear the way for negotiation and national reconciliation; - plus make post exit trade deals much easier for commerce and business.
This is actually a Very Great Opportunity - seize it Brits !!!
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Old Sep 5th 2019, 8:49 am
  #96  
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Default Re: On the 1st of November, we will be....

Originally Posted by BritInParis View Post
I wouldn’t be too hasty. Still everything to play for as we move into the final round.
Hard to see much of a negotiating position when we've just publicly and very embarrassingly cut our only opportunity to strong arm the EU.

Let's not forget, the EU are saying they're happy to chat, but the deal remains the same. They're calling a big bluff. We could have called it and gone - **** it, **** you, we're off.

No. Comrade Corbyn rallied and grabbed a few more idiots from the Conservative back bench to stop us having any sort of clout in negotiations. We literally showed the EU that we've got **** all in our hand now whilst they're holding pocket aces and laughing. I mean, they've even got the drinks girl under the table sucking their plums, whilst we're staring at what used to be a pile of poker chips and wondering what the **** to do next. We're on our 3rd sub and potentially about to swap players AGAIN, but this time to someone who wants to play snap instead. ****ing clueless.
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Old Sep 5th 2019, 9:35 am
  #97  
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Default Re: On the 1st of November, we will be....

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
Hard to see much of a negotiating position when we've just publicly and very embarrassingly cut our only opportunity to strong arm the EU.

Let's not forget, the EU are saying they're happy to chat, but the deal remains the same. They're calling a big bluff. We could have called it and gone - **** it, **** you, we're off.

No. Comrade Corbyn rallied and grabbed a few more idiots from the Conservative back bench to stop us having any sort of clout in negotiations. We literally showed the EU that we've got **** all in our hand now whilst they're holding pocket aces and laughing. I mean, they've even got the drinks girl under the table sucking their plums, whilst we're staring at what used to be a pile of poker chips and wondering what the **** to do next. We're on our 3rd sub and potentially about to swap players AGAIN, but this time to someone who wants to play snap instead. ****ing clueless.
We certainly agree on this - its a basic fundamental of negotiation that both parties can walk away and the remainiacs have tied the governments negotiation position to only being able to take what's on offer - so zero strength and guaranteed to get the UK the worst result.

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Old Sep 5th 2019, 10:31 am
  #98  
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Default Re: On the 1st of November, we will be....

Originally Posted by BritInParis View Post
I wouldn’t be too hasty. Still everything to play for as we move into the final round.
I wasn't being.

As far as this BE poll is concerned, the only matter of any interest is what happens by October 31st and where the UK stands on 1st November.

There are only 3 possibilities. One looks to be in the process of being ruled out and another looks extremely unlikely, especially as it now doesn't even appear to have been a serious ambition.
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Old Sep 5th 2019, 12:08 pm
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Default Re: On the 1st of November, we will be....

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
Hard to see much of a negotiating position when we've just publicly and very embarrassingly cut our only opportunity to strong arm the EU.

Let's not forget, the EU are saying they're happy to chat, but the deal remains the same. They're calling a big bluff. We could have called it and gone - **** it, **** you, we're off.

No. Comrade Corbyn rallied and grabbed a few more idiots from the Conservative back bench to stop us having any sort of clout in negotiations. We literally showed the EU that we've got **** all in our hand now whilst they're holding pocket aces and laughing. I mean, they've even got the drinks girl under the table sucking their plums, whilst we're staring at what used to be a pile of poker chips and wondering what the **** to do next. We're on our 3rd sub and potentially about to swap players AGAIN, but this time to someone who wants to play snap instead. ****ing clueless.
Scamp, there are those who don't see attempting to "strong arm" the EU as desirable for the national interest, and who don't see the EU as "the enemy" despite Cummings' and Boris's efforts to position it as such with the Churchillian mannerism and "surrender bill" language. That's all just marketing and the antagonism has been manufactured. This mess is not of the EU's making, nor Labour's making. It is mostly the fault of the Tories with an assist from the likes of Farage and his funders, such as Banks. Whether you support Corbyn or not, we shouldn't allow ourselves to be manipulated by the Cummings/Boris/Rees Mogg spin - if they have the interests of the country and the "people" at heart or even close to it, I'm the Queen of Sheba.

Edit to add - if there's one thing that has become clear over the last couple of days it's that Boris has been lying (again), as many Conservatives of long standing pointed out, and he has not been negotiating with the EU at all, so there is nothing to undermine. It's all just fabricated bluster for a GE.

Last edited by Lion in Winter; Sep 5th 2019 at 12:17 pm.
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Old Sep 5th 2019, 12:20 pm
  #100  
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Default Re: On the 1st of November, we will be....

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Scamp, there are those who don't see attempting to "strong arm" the EU as desirable for the national interest, and who don't see the EU as "the enemy" despite Cummings' and Boris's efforts to position it as such with the Churchillian mannerism and "surrender bill" language. That's all just marketing and the antagonism has been manufactured. This mess is not of the EU's making, nor Labour's making. It is mostly the fault of the Tories with an assist from the likes of Farage and his funders, such as Banks. Whether you support Corbyn or not, we shouldn't allow ourselves to be manipulated by the Cummings/Boris/Rees Mogg spin - if they have the interests of the country and the "people" at heart or even close to it, I'm the Queen of Sheba.

Edit to add - if there's one thing that has become clear over the last couple of days it's that Boris has been lying (again), as many Conservatives of long standing pointed out, and he has not been negotiating with the EU at all, so there is nothing to undermine. It's all just fabricated bluster for a GE.
He's told the EU that the backstop must go (and that it has failed in a parliamentary vote 3 times) and is preparing for a no-deal brexit - that is negotiation.
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Old Sep 5th 2019, 12:35 pm
  #101  
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Default Re: On the 1st of November, we will be....

Let's see what different groupes want

ERG = No deal hence voted against deal
Moderate Cons = Brexit hence voted for the deal
DUP = No backstop hence voted against the deal

And this is where all the negotiating time went, trying to square these 3 groups
If they had all had voted for the deal Brexit would have happened.


Labour = CU and SM would have voted for the deal but not de political declaration because that one was as clear as mud
Lib Dems = No Brexit hence voted against deal
SNP = No Brexit hence voted against deal
TIG = People's vote hence voted against deal

Did I forget something ?

And this is all for a withdrawal agreement which would have lasted for 2 years (I think) whilst negotiating a futur relationship (easiest deal in history).
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Old Sep 5th 2019, 12:43 pm
  #102  
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Default Re: On the 1st of November, we will be....

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Scamp, there are those who don't see attempting to "strong arm" the EU as desirable for the national interest, and who don't see the EU as "the enemy" despite Cummings' and Boris's efforts to position it as such with the Churchillian mannerism and "surrender bill" language. That's all just marketing and the antagonism has been manufactured. This mess is not of the EU's making, nor Labour's making. It is mostly the fault of the Tories with an assist from the likes of Farage and his funders, such as Banks. Whether you support Corbyn or not, we shouldn't allow ourselves to be manipulated by the Cummings/Boris/Rees Mogg spin - if they have the interests of the country and the "people" at heart or even close to it, I'm the Queen of Sheba.
Edit to add - if there's one thing that has become clear over the last couple of days it's that Boris has been lying (again), as many Conservatives of long standing pointed out, and he has not been negotiating with the EU at all, so there is nothing to undermine. It's all just fabricated bluster for a GE.
.... Now ask yourself.... How did they get there, and who's responsible for allowing them to maintain positions that have ended up with "the country" in its current state? ... It's no use blaming the electorate Scamp - either side.
Who has continually not done their job......?
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Old Sep 5th 2019, 12:53 pm
  #103  
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Default Re: On the 1st of November, we will be....

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Scamp, there are those who don't see attempting to "strong arm" the EU as desirable for the national interest, and who don't see the EU as "the enemy" despite Cummings' and Boris's efforts to position it as such with the Churchillian mannerism and "surrender bill" language. That's all just marketing and the antagonism has been manufactured. This mess is not of the EU's making, nor Labour's making. It is mostly the fault of the Tories with an assist from the likes of Farage and his funders, such as Banks. Whether you support Corbyn or not, we shouldn't allow ourselves to be manipulated by the Cummings/Boris/Rees Mogg spin - if they have the interests of the country and the "people" at heart or even close to it, I'm the Queen of Sheba.

Edit to add - if there's one thing that has become clear over the last couple of days it's that Boris has been lying (again), as many Conservatives of long standing pointed out, and he has not been negotiating with the EU at all, so there is nothing to undermine. It's all just fabricated bluster for a GE.
Yeah, fair point. I'm not really meaning for it to sound like that, I just think in negotiations you need to be a bit wiser than showing everyone your position. It's a calamity of errors and whoever is to blame is to blame, that's arguably done already...but this latest thumping defeat for Boris means we've lost the last bit of opportunity or guile going.

Frankly, the fact we've been 'leaving' for years and done nothing about it is mind blowing. Every single politician is to blame, every last one of them. Sitting there, posturing, sniping and blaming. It's like these threads - there's very little productive conversation, lots of bollocks, a few gags and shed loads of picking and blocking.

Somewhat of a Churchillian / siege mentality might actually rally some of these spineless helmets to actually want to get something done. The lazy, slouchy, sat back and throw shade attitude is ****ing pathetic. We've collectively ****ed up by voting leave, lets not spend 5 years ****ing up how we leave and when leave and then have another 2 year transition to flap around in. We could have renegotiated virtually everything in the time it's taken us to achieve precisely (and I mean PRECISELY) **** all.

A group of the countries brightest and best Chief Execs would have battered this into a deal and made it work. Sometimes, as much as I hate it with a passion, the old stiff upper lip, get stuck in and make best mentality cannot be beaten. Off to shower now for admitting it, but you know what I mean? Let's just get on with it. We're so, so much better than this as a country.

Re your edit - yes, apparently so. I don't really know what to believe because that could all just be bollocks to ensure he loses and those switching parties are secured. Why should we believe one politician over another?
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Old Sep 5th 2019, 12:54 pm
  #104  
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Default Re: On the 1st of November, we will be....

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
Let's see what different groupes want

ERG = No deal hence voted against deal
Moderate Cons = Brexit hence voted for the deal
DUP = No backstop hence voted against the deal

And this is where all the negotiating time went, trying to square these 3 groups
If they had all had voted for the deal Brexit would have happened.


Labour = CU and SM would have voted for the deal but not de political declaration because that one was as clear as mud
Lib Dems = No Brexit hence voted against deal
SNP = No Brexit hence voted against deal
TIG = People's vote hence voted against deal

Did I forget something ?

And this is all for a withdrawal agreement which would have lasted for 2 years (I think) whilst negotiating a futur relationship (easiest deal in history).
You're being far too generous and lenient towards Labour. They've voted against the deal, not because it was a bad deal per se, but they were using it more as a party political vehicle - ie. they were voting against the Tories, not against the deal. Politics schmolitics.
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Old Sep 5th 2019, 12:54 pm
  #105  
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Default Re: On the 1st of November, we will be....

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
Let's see what different groupes want

ERG = No deal hence voted against deal
Moderate Cons = Brexit hence voted for the deal
DUP = No backstop hence voted against the deal

And this is where all the negotiating time went, trying to square these 3 groups
If they had all had voted for the deal Brexit would have happened.


Labour = CU and SM would have voted for the deal but not de political declaration because that one was as clear as mud
Lib Dems = No Brexit hence voted against deal
SNP = No Brexit hence voted against deal
TIG = People's vote hence voted against deal

Did I forget something ?

And this is all for a withdrawal agreement which would have lasted for 2 years (I think) whilst negotiating a futur relationship (easiest deal in history).
How many ERG/DUP voted against the deal Vs how many Labour/LibDem/Green/SNP?
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