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Young Family Moving to Spain

Young Family Moving to Spain

Old Mar 6th 2022, 6:47 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: Young Family Moving to Spain

As many are pointing out, since Brexit things that we took for granted are no longer available to UK nats. Plus there are some important aspects concerning culture and lifestyle you need to consider.
First you will need to apply for a work visa that allows you to carry on with your business in UK. Secondly you will need to do a Spanish driving test in the Spanish language. Third, and little known, concerns your children's future. In 2026, UK nationals living in EU, will no longer be considered home-students in respect to Higher education. This means that if your children wished to return to UK to study at college or university they will be classed as international students and subject too very high fees with no resort to student loans. It might seem a long way off but most UK families like their children to return to UK so it is important to bear in mind. Your oldest will at 10 now find it hard to have sufficient Spanish for the start of secondary ( unless you speak Spanish and can help by immersing him in the language) so will probably need to attend a private English or bilingual school. Finally Spain is no more relaxed or better for you than uk. People struggle here too which is why young Spanish families were keen to move away to uk prior to Brexit. I would recommend enjoying family holidays here until your kids are older than perhaps moving permanently
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Old Mar 6th 2022, 7:29 pm
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Default Re: Young Family Moving to Spain

Originally Posted by Matty1683
I'm referring to getting home in a hurry for parents and grandparents or for other UK family emergencies, which of course is easier than being in somewhere like the USA or Australia and having to get home.

Whilst i appreciate your advice I prefer if you didn't try and pick holes in my words. I've looked at a couple of private schools and made some enquiries.

Anyway, all seems quite negative in here, thought there would be some positivity, im prepared for some cons of course but would be good to hear some pros as well.
Go for it. You won't find too much positivity as most members made the move at different points in their lives, not with young children and good jobs.

For schooling, I can only speak for one British private school in Valencia. It's very reasonable in comparison to other European countries and much cheaper than in the UK. The follow the same curriculum and you get the same qualifications. In general I would suggest trying the youngest in local schools. It's the best way for them to integrate and they will always have the bonus of speaking fluent English. You can always switch to Brit schools later. 10 years old isn't too late either. All 3 of mine have changed at varying times in several countries to local schools as well as international schools. It either hasn't affected their grades or has helped them achieve better grades.

I have no knowledge of Moraira other than knowing it's a small town near Benidorm so I'm guessing there's not an international school within walking distance. The school run would be my only concern and I would consider being closer to the schools. Depending on the budget, I would look at buying one and renting another depending on which way around is more economical. M-F during term times near the school will help with integration. During weekends and holidays most families go away to their home towns (or countries), the beach or the mountains, especially those from the international schools.

As for the weather... it's Spain. I'm sure you know what to expect. It's hot in the summer and fairly cold in the winter. You need heating and cooling and a varied wardrobe.

Two pieces of advice: 1. Get a professional to deal with everything. Relocation agencies arrange everything and are worth every penny. Note: Good relocation agencies work on word of mouth. They don't trawl ex-pat sites or Facebook pages looking for business. 2. Don't take any advice as gospel. Nobody else is in your exact situation.

In short, the kids will be fine. You will be fine as you're not looking to run a bar or rent sunbeds.
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Old Mar 6th 2022, 10:26 pm
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Default Re: Young Family Moving to Spain

Originally Posted by Matty1683
the property was a property in our business name, was only 2 bed and we need 4, so we sold it just as covid took hold. but always had intention to get back in the area.

I understand your point with food, can eat healthy anywhere so maybe didn't use the right words. Lifestyle however would be the siesta's, better and warmer climate.
I don't see siesta's being a better lifestyle to be honest and that traditionally meant people were escaping the heat and had to work longer in the evenings. I'd say you've made your mind up anyway and that's fine, but some of the points Barriej made should be noted. Maybe with kids you aren't as flexible and feel you need to flee as sunseekers, so by moving will have a permanent holiday. The big problem is that the things that excite you as a tourist can annoy you when you move over permanently. Although I like the Med and enjoy it from October- March, it's a different story during summer. This weekend we started the bbq season here in Ireland and especially during spring/summer you just have a nicer climate than what we would have there, but there's more to life than going to remote beaches, lakes, forest trails and kayaking. You need to find the balance and forget sun, sea and sangria. Maybe you are loaded with cash and aren't bothered, but what happens when the business isn't successful, do you have alternatives, a support network, what about kids education, their job future etc. Of course we are again all only focused on one part of Spain and some of the happiest employed Spanish people I know live around Pontevedra and Illa de Arousa. Just saying that maybe you need to look at various locations and forget the holiday thinking.

Last edited by Moses2013; Mar 6th 2022 at 10:46 pm.
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Old Mar 6th 2022, 11:07 pm
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Default Re: Young Family Moving to Spain

As a parent who moved here when my boy was 10 , here's my experience. Primary school is fine but it really depends where you live. If it is a popular area for foreigners your child will probably makes friends will English speaking kids due to the language. This is fine but it gets hard to change and they tend to stick to these groups which severely affects their Spanish language learning. A 10 year old will need to have acquired a good level of spanish over the last two years of primary if they want to achieve anything in secondary. Although there were a few British kids in my son's primary and some at the start of secondary most just disappeared as they simply didn't seem to be able learn the language. My ex was a Spanish speaker and introduced all of us to a Spanish way of life vis a vis day to day living and this helped my son acclimatise to the attitudes and ways of the other kids. If you stick to British cultural habits your children never really adapt and constantly remain closed off to the Spanish kids. In other words, if you feel that the working day finishes at 5.00pm your children wont t learn to use the evenings for the extra school stuff etc. Also as a parent you need to take an active role in your kids education. They get alot of homework even at primary and do exams practically every week. Most parents help kids adapt to this by helping prepare for tests and the doing of homework.It is very different from the UK. Most schools finish at around 2.00pm and dont have school lunches- this is where the grandparents come into play and also shows why extended families are crucial part of the social- economical model- grandparents pick kids up and then take them home for lunch and homework. This allows parents to work all day which normally finishes at 8.00. All in all Spanish life is just as hectic as in the uk, it is just that it constructs itself differently. As a young family you have to be prepared to make major adjustments and for many that is not what they imagined doing when they thought about moving. My advice is do it if you are really prepared to accept a challenge and learn the language and participate in the society. If it's simply a case of sitting by a pool getting a tan, chilling out then wait until you are retired or just enjoy school holidays in Spain.
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Old Mar 7th 2022, 7:48 am
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Default Re: Young Family Moving to Spain

Originally Posted by Matty1683
no problem, yes switching income is fine as well operate our business throughout Europe so our income would just come from a different division of the business.
I think you're either not listening or not understanding.

The NLV means no work - period.

The self employed visa is not quite what is being portrayed.

This is from the Spanish consulate in Los Angeles but stripped of the references specific thereto and the US applies across the board.

SELF-EMPLOYMENT WORK VISA

and in particular para. 9 and depending on the type of activity possibly also para. 10

In essence there needs to be a benefit to Spain, immediate or projected, above and beyond taxes paid by the individual. Relocating and simply remotely running an existing business will not cut it.

Like others the self employed visa is also only initially valid for one year but renewable conditional on meeting the requirements, if there no progress on what has been laid out in the business plan it could well be refused.
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Old Mar 7th 2022, 10:20 am
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Default Re: Young Family Moving to Spain

Originally Posted by Matty1683
.... Anyway, all seems quite negative in here, thought there would be some positivity, I'm prepared for some cons of course but would be good to hear some pros as well.
Please excuse me from sticking my oar in from afar, but here on BE we very commonly find that people asking questions similar to yours are very capable of providing the own list of positives, but they were unaware of, or tend to gloss over many of the negatives, some of which can be much bigger issues than they realize, and also that some of the items on their list of positives may actually be "phantom positives".

In the case of families moving with young children it is not uncommon years later to find that the children have been marginalized in the country their parents took them to (as Ronnyone described above, but not only Spain), and the children return back to the UK at the earliest opportunity, but with the added burden of having qualifications that don't prepare them for transition into the workplace in the UK. What is your post-school strategy for your children?

Last edited by Pulaski; Mar 7th 2022 at 10:23 am.
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Old Mar 7th 2022, 4:29 pm
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Default Re: Young Family Moving to Spain

First time poster here - good luck with the planned move!

We recently moved with a baby, to a different area in Spain, so I can´t really offer advice on a lot of areas, however we´re enjoying the Spanish culture and lifestyle and very glad we made the move.

The only bit I can really comment on is making sure you all learn the language as quickly as possible. I´m lucky to have a Spanish wife who helped me a lot, but without her it would have been extremely hard.
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Old Mar 7th 2022, 6:46 pm
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Default Re: Young Family Moving to Spain

The OP is asking for experiences. One would safely assume that if he's serious about the move then he would have done his homework on the legal side of things. The pros and cons for each age group differ as they differ with financial security and family situation. The real issue around education has nothing to do with employability, it's the transition to higher education from IB, EB or any other recognized programme to enter university. This is partly dependent on if a young adult chooses the academic route, arts route or trade route. Bilingual adults have far better chances at the jobs requiring high academic achievement and as long as they haven't been secluded from real life they will flourish as far as their abilities allow. With the arts you have a better chance if you have the nomadic mentality and the ability the adapt. Trades are the same. There aren't many trades left who only speak English these days. The only other experience I would underline is that sending your kids to a school even a few miles away or living in an expat/immigrant enclave means they quickly become isolated.

Maybe I read Ronnyone's post with a different tint of sunglasses. I read it as informational in that active parenting is part of the design in Spain, as in many other countries and cultures.

From personal experience I've made the move solo and with the assistance of agencies. The second option was much easier and made sure I was fully compliant with the law. I've lived at the beach and in towns and cities. The latter suit me better as when living at the beach I spent 9 months of the year driving the kids to and from town for school, clubs, friends etc. Not to mention the problem of humidity, that was a real killer. I've lived in one country where they didn't like foreigners (not the UK), one that's very tolerant of foreigners with the exception of the older generation and now Spain. I don't really know how the Spanish feel towards foreigners on the whole but I live in an area where the most common second language is Dutch. In my building we have no Spanish. We have Russians, Germans, Brits, Americans and Mexicans. I have no issues with work despite not speaking Spanish, my son is in an international school and socialises with Spaniards and other immigrant kids. This experience means he speaks 5 languages, 3 fluently, and finds it very easy to adapt to his surroundings.
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Old Mar 7th 2022, 7:09 pm
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Default Re: Young Family Moving to Spain

Originally Posted by Matty1683
Hi Everyone

Sorry if this has been asked before, me and my family are considering leaving the UK, we are currently in Essex and looking at the area of Moraira. We had a holiday home there up until it was sold in 2019.

My partner and I are 38, we have 3 daughters, 3 year old twins and a 10 year old. We really like the area and certainly feels like home. We have become fed up with UK weather, food and lifestyle. I think our daughters growing up would be benefit from this more relaxed lifestyle.

If anyone can share their experiences of the area, any pros and cons of upping and leaving the UK would be perfect for us to weigh up our decision.We are both self employed and can continue to run our businesses from home (Spain) as we have done here for the last 2 years.

Really appreciate the advice.

Thanks.

Matt
Hi, butting in from the France forum, but this is a universal issue.
The good news is that your 3-year olds will have no trouble learning Spanish and integrating into Spanish life, if they attend the local equivalent to the French "Maternelle" (pre-Primary Infants). On the other hand, your 10-year old is at a bad age to cope with last year Primary, and even less so first year Secondary, if she hasn't already mastered Spanish Grammar. It would be advisable to put her in an International School, being aware of the possible future drawbacks mentioned above. Her Spanish wouldn't be as perfect as her sisters', and this may affect her further education/employment in Spain. The comment about wanting to return to the UK is pertinent, and you should think ahead. How does your eldest feel about leaving her friends and family?
Sorry to sound like a wet blanket , but I'm playing the devil's advocate on a delicate subject. Fore-warned is fore-armed!
(I imagine that the Visa and business issues are the same as in France, and you should take on board the advice of those in-the-know for Spain.)
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Old Mar 7th 2022, 10:21 pm
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Default Re: Young Family Moving to Spain

I have to say that I do regret bringing my son to Spain when he was 10. It was too old for him. At that age they are just finding themselves and making their first friends etc. My son was quite sociable before coming but it is clear now that even at 10 the time it took to learn Spanish sufficiently ( 3 years) meant he was often excluded and then became too self- conscious and shy. He is one of the best pupils in his class in a Spanish school but he has hardly any friends and spends most of his time in his room studying as the subjects get harder to do in Spanish than would be the case in English. I was thinking of returning to UK for him to finish his schooling there but the schools I phoned couldn't guarantee places until August and then said that exam classes might be full in some subjects ,meaning he might not get to do the subjects he likes. I think my only alternative will be a private international school with A- levels here in Spain so he can have a shot at a UK university later.
I really feel that unless your kids are pre- primary and you intend to live and integrate properly in Spanish culture you are not doing them a favour. Believe you me, children soon stop playing in the pools and going to the beaches- they dont sunbathe and being bought crisps and Fanta whilst Mum and Dad have another jug of sangria is their idea of boring.
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Old Mar 7th 2022, 10:57 pm
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Default Re: Young Family Moving to Spain

Originally Posted by Ronnyone
I have to say that I do regret bringing my son to Spain when he was 10. It was too old for him. At that age they are just finding themselves and making their first friends etc. My son was quite sociable before coming but it is clear now that even at 10 the time it took to learn Spanish sufficiently ( 3 years) meant he was often excluded and then became too self- conscious and shy. He is one of the best pupils in his class in a Spanish school but he has hardly any friends and spends most of his time in his room studying as the subjects get harder to do in Spanish than would be the case in English. I was thinking of returning to UK for him to finish his schooling there but the schools I phoned couldn't guarantee places until August and then said that exam classes might be full in some subjects ,meaning he might not get to do the subjects he likes. I think my only alternative will be a private international school with A- levels here in Spain so he can have a shot at a UK university later.
I really feel that unless your kids are pre- primary and you intend to live and integrate properly in Spanish culture you are not doing them a favour. Believe you me, children soon stop playing in the pools and going to the beaches- they dont sunbathe and being bought crisps and Fanta whilst Mum and Dad have another jug of sangria is their idea of boring.
The only problem is that not all parents will admit that and it's usually parents first. Especially those who are focused on sunshine hours will rarely look at their children and want the kids to live the parents life. Maybe the kids will be perfectly fine and the 10 year old will be fluent in no time, who knows. Sometimes Spain can be a bit like the US and the parents might want to live a pensioners life in a small town in Florida because they enjoyed holidays there and the kids find the place totally boring. Maybe moving closer to a younger city or town could offer a better balance for parents and kids.
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Old Mar 7th 2022, 11:44 pm
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Default Re: Young Family Moving to Spain

Originally Posted by Matty1683
Hi Everyone

Sorry if this has been asked before, me and my family are considering leaving the UK, we are currently in Essex and looking at the area of Moraira. We had a holiday home there up until it was sold in 2019.

My partner and I are 38, we have 3 daughters, 3 year old twins and a 10 year old. We really like the area and certainly feels like home. We have become fed up with UK weather, food and lifestyle. I think our daughters growing up would be benefit from this more relaxed lifestyle.

If anyone can share their experiences of the area, any pros and cons of upping and leaving the UK would be perfect for us to weigh up our decision.We are both self employed and can continue to run our businesses from home (Spain) as we have done here for the last 2 years.

Really appreciate the advice.

Thanks.

Matt
My opinion mate, you’re asking these things in the wrong place. <snip>

My advice would be to go and spend the summer in Moraira, get to know locals and meet people who can help you at face value

Last edited by christmasoompa; Mar 8th 2022 at 1:44 am. Reason: No need to insult your fellow forum members
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Old Mar 8th 2022, 1:40 am
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Default Re: Young Family Moving to Spain

Originally Posted by Albir_Tom
My opinion mate, you’re asking these things in the wrong place. <snip>
Agreed. In the past (pre Brexit) when there was a high turnover of Brits, the failure rate was sky high and people often returned to the UK feeling very bitter.

I would add that sadly, Brexit has made life extremely difficult for UK nationals currently relocating to Spain so be prepared and take professional advice.

Last edited by christmasoompa; Mar 8th 2022 at 1:44 am. Reason: Quoted post edited
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Old Mar 8th 2022, 1:56 am
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Default Re: Young Family Moving to Spain

Originally Posted by Lou71
Agreed. In the past (pre Brexit) when there was a high turnover of Brits, the failure rate was sky high and people often returned to the UK feeling very bitter.

I would add that sadly, Brexit has made life extremely difficult for UK nationals currently relocating to Spain so be prepared and take professional advice.
Except that the EU and Brexit might have very little to do with it other than make the phenomenon relatively common, because the pattern of Brits moving to Florida is almost identical, with the twist that people think it will be easier because the language barrier is much lower. But they come, they find living in the US is much different from visiting on holiday, that making a living is tougher than expected, that the cost of living in the US is much more expensive than they realized, and that the kids didn't get as much out of the experience as the parents had hoped.

Last edited by Pulaski; Mar 8th 2022 at 2:00 am.
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Old Mar 8th 2022, 8:18 am
  #30  
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Default Re: Young Family Moving to Spain

By September 2023 the so called Digital Nomad Visa may be in place and on the face of it you would qualify.

It's actually not a Visa, nor is it just for Nomads but is part of the proposed Start Up Act that is due to become law later this year.

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Originally Posted by Matty1683
hi,

no problem, yes switching income is fine as well operate our business throughout Europe so our income would just come from a different division of the business.

Wont be doing this overnight, my intention would be September 2023 for the start of the school year., Found a private school locally and made some enquiries, they are pricy of course, compared to the UK they are cheaper though i must admit.
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