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Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

Old Jan 6th 2011, 2:12 pm
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Default Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

Originally Posted by jackytoo
Only have to read this thread to see that the benefit culture is really entrenched with the British. They expect money for anything and despite being (in some cases) ill they can argue their case professionally. Wonder if DWP read this thread....they may "learn some lessons" .
Perhaps you're right.

I went for a walk with my OH when we first moved to Pago Melilla and we were passed by a motor bike with two teenagers on it going the other way. A little later we turned back and as we walked back along the track we came across a wallet in the road that wasn't there on the way down.

So I picked it up and found it contained a couple of receipts, a ten euro note and a student identity card.I enquired at a couple of Ventas if anyone knew the owner but with no luck. So I enquired as to the location of the nearest police station and found that it was in the centre of Chiclana. I went and got the car and drove there getting lost several times and all the while dark clouds were gathering and as we got to the Police Station it started to rain.

I went in and had a discussion with the guy on duty and he shrugged his shoulders and said I needed to take it to San Fernando. I explained that I had no idea where San Fernando was and even less about where their police station was and eventually he said he would send it to them. By this time the rain had eased and I walked to the car feeling I had done something usefull.

As I got to the car there was a burst of thunder the heavens opened dumping all over me and I got totally saturated.

True story so was it all worth while? I think so as I laughed all the way back. I'm sure most of you would have done the same thing in the same circumstances.

Jim

Last edited by Bigger Jim; Jan 6th 2011 at 2:16 pm.
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Old Jan 6th 2011, 5:08 pm
  #302  
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Default Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

Originally Posted by JLFS
I dont really understand the relevance in the question in relation to the topic.

To be perfectly hones, if I did not see anyone drop the money I suppose I would keep it. It is not like finding a hugh wodge or anything.

So faced with the choices available, pick it up, take it to the police, or leave it on the floor, I would do the most convient thing for myself.

I would not take it to the police in the same way that during my lifetime I have lost much more than a tenner out of my own pocket and never bothered to report the loss to the police. I think that their time could be used more constructively than filling out all kinds of paperwork over a lost tenner.

If you are trying to say that would make me a theif, then that would be your opinion. But instead of using the example of a tenner, us a newpaper. If you found one on a park bench what would you do with it?

Not take it to the police surely?????
The relevance to the thread is pretty obvious. People are saying that it is totally immoral and theft pure and simple to take any benefit that you are not entitled to. I was just curious to see how people would treat an accompanied bank note.

Like you I would consider it fair exchange for all the money I have lost in the past, and accept it as going some way to balance the deficit.

The point I was trying to make was about being too black and white. If you took the newspaper, you would be technically a thief.
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Old Jan 6th 2011, 5:22 pm
  #303  
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Default Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

[QUOTE=bil;9082235]The relevance to the thread is pretty obvious. People are saying that it is totally immoral and theft pure and simple to take any benefit that you are not entitled to. I was just curious to see how people would treat an accompanied bank note.

Like you I would consider it fair exchange for all the money I have lost in the past, and accept it as going some way to balance the deficit.

The point I was trying to make was about being too black and white. If you took the newspaper, you would be technically a thief.[/QUOTE]

well as you say, it may be techinically theft, but if every case of "finding lost property" would be classed as theft, the whole system of police-court-sentence would be chaos.
As every lost brolly, odd glove, and packet of fags and half eaten packet of Smints would have to be reported and put through the process,

And from my point of view a "find" is not the same a planning to steal, lying, forgeing to obtain something you are not entitled to, as in MPs expenses and benfit fraud.

You asked me what I would do on finding 10e, and that was my answer. I would not go through a load of hassle for something as trivial.

I could lie and say I would run straight to the police but even though you say it is theft, I still would not do anything like reporting it. (just being honest and I have a feeling that you already knew what my answer would be when you asked the question. You old buzzard
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Old Jan 6th 2011, 5:26 pm
  #304  
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Default Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

Originally Posted by jackytoo
Only have to read this thread to see that the benefit culture is really entrenched with the British. They expect money for anything and despite being (in some cases) ill they can argue their case professionally. Wonder if DWP read this thread....they may "learn some lessons" Nothing will ever change as the majority of voters are on some type of benefit.
Another of your assumptions that has no evidence to support it. By all means have an opinion but please present it as an opinion and not as a statement of fact.
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Old Jan 6th 2011, 6:07 pm
  #305  
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Default Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

[QUOTE=JLFS;9082268]
Originally Posted by bil
The relevance to the thread is pretty obvious. People are saying that it is totally immoral and theft pure and simple to take any benefit that you are not entitled to. I was just curious to see how people would treat an accompanied bank note.

Like you I would consider it fair exchange for all the money I have lost in the past, and accept it as going some way to balance the deficit.

The point I was trying to make was about being too black and white. If you took the newspaper, you would be technically a thief.[/QUOTE]

well as you say, it may be techinically theft, but if every case of "finding lost property" would be classed as theft, the whole system of police-court-sentence would be chaos.
As every lost brolly, odd glove, and packet of fags and half eaten packet of Smints would have to be reported and put through the process,

And from my point of view a "find" is not the same a planning to steal, lying, forgeing to obtain something you are not entitled to, as in MPs expenses and benfit fraud.

You asked me what I would do on finding 10e, and that was my answer. I would not go through a load of hassle for something as trivial.

I could lie and say I would run straight to the police but even though you say it is theft, I still would not do anything like reporting it. (just being honest and I have a feeling that you already knew what my answer would be when you asked the question. You old buzzard
Not just a leg pull. Someone I know picked up a glass brick where it had been dropped near some building works and was prosecuted. Mind you the copper concerned was an arse, and had it in for him.
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Old Jan 6th 2011, 8:56 pm
  #306  
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Default Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

Originally Posted by bil
Your son is obviously a scrupulously honest person, and what he did was the only way to deal with the situation and remain 100% honest. If you pick up such a note and put it in the nearest poor box, that makes you a thief, and in the parlance of this thread, as much of a thief had you taken a thousand pounds out of someones pocket.

Myself, well I dare say that were I to find a 50 euro note, I would have e religious experience.

There would come a voice from heaven saying 'Take it my child, and enjoy.'
So lets take it a little further bil, I wonder what sort of religious experience you'd have if you came across a stash of 50,000 in used notes whilst walking in the woods, as a pal of mine once did ?
For all he was a decent sort of guy, I was still quite surprised he took it straight to the cops.
We later found out it was the proceeds of a night club robbery.
Now it was a well known fact, that the guys who ran the night club, were a ten times more evil bunch of villains than the robbers themselves.
Personally I think I would have sat on it a while before deciding, and most likely kept it when I learnt the true facts, however it's very easy to be wise after the event.
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Old Jan 6th 2011, 9:41 pm
  #307  
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Default Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly
So lets take it a little further bil, I wonder what sort of religious experience you'd have if you came across a stash of 50,000 in used notes whilst walking in the woods, as a pal of mine once did ?
For all he was a decent sort of guy, I was still quite surprised he took it straight to the cops.
We later found out it was the proceeds of a night club robbery.
Now it was a well known fact, that the guys who ran the night club, were a ten times more evil bunch of villains than the robbers themselves.
Personally I think I would have sat on it a while before deciding, and most likely kept it when I learnt the true facts, however it's very easy to be wise after the event.
I think that my assumption would be that it was going to be very dodgy stuff, so I would have secreted it somewhere very, very safe.

I'm no saint, and I would assume that god would be offended if I turned down such a generous present.

So, all in all much the same kind of religious experience as if I found 10 euros on the ground. Just more orgasmic.

'Come to daddy. Daddy loves you very much.'
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Old Jan 7th 2011, 7:05 am
  #308  
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Default Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

Originally Posted by bil
I think that my assumption would be that it was going to be very dodgy stuff, so I would have secreted it somewhere very, very safe.

I'm no saint, and I would assume that god would be offended if I turned down such a generous present.

So, all in all much the same kind of religious experience as if I found 10 euros on the ground. Just more orgasmic.

'Come to daddy. Daddy loves you very much.'
How did this go from fraudsters in Spain to hypothetical orgasmic stuff.
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Old Jan 7th 2011, 7:39 am
  #309  
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Default Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

If you find a wallet with money in it and hand it in to the police, do you really expect the money to still be in the wallet when it is returned to the owner?

My wife has "lost" her purse a couple of times now, the last time with well over a hundred euros in it. The GC brought it back to our house on both occasions. All credit cards and residency/health cards were present, everything there except the euros. We now just accept the fact that any cash will be pocketed but are grateful to get the cards back.

And as for finding a newspaper on a park bench, it was probably left there deliberately by the previous owner after they had finished reading it. I find the same in airport departure lounges - newspapers left on seats for someone else to read. Can hardly be classed as theft.
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Old Jan 7th 2011, 8:39 am
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Default Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

There was an interesting study done with wallets etc being left around to see how people would react.

The more personal details there were with the wallet or birthday card, the more likely it would be to be handed back.

Technically, that newspaper could be described as theft.

No-one ever would do anything about it, but it is.
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Old Jan 7th 2011, 9:13 am
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Default Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

If the newspaper is deliberately left on the bench because the previous owner has finished with it then surely it has been given as a gift to the next person that picks it up?

Or are you suggesting that it would now be owned by the park bench owners and therefore their property?

Wtf has this got to do with benefit fraud I don't know...
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Old Jan 7th 2011, 9:55 am
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Default Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

Originally Posted by billgates
If the newspaper is deliberately left on the bench because the previous owner has finished with it then surely it has been given as a gift to the next person that picks it up?

Or are you suggesting that it would now be owned by the park bench owners and therefore their property?

Wtf has this got to do with benefit fraud I don't know...
It's the property of the person who paid for it.

The reason for all this was to point out to people here that they should perhaps pay attention to the biblical admonition of motes and beams. I will wager there are people here who shriek with horror at the thought of someone fiddling a bit of extra money each week, but who would pick up a 10 euro note and pocket it without thinking. Or for that matter claim on their tax for expenses they know they are not really entitled to.

I'm not setting myself up as some kind of moralist here, because I too would pick it up.

Theft is theft. There are no ifs or buts. Saying that something is less of a crime is the same as saying someone is just a bit pregnant, or technically pregnant. It's an all or nothing thing.
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Old Jan 7th 2011, 10:39 am
  #313  
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Default Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

I watched a TV programme just the other day called Saints and Sinners (I’m rapidly turning into a sad person). It was about benefit fraud, supposedly balanced by helping people obtain benefits if they didn’t know how to.

The ‘heroine’ was a woman with multiple identities who had changed her name, legally, at least ten times and was fraudulently claiming all there was to claim under different names. It took years to get sufficient evidence against her because she claimed to have a twin sister, a healthy one as opposed to the real one who was in a wheel chair every time the Social called.

She did get four-and-a-half years for her troubles eventually, the proveable fraud amounted to over £200,000.

But the four-year investigation cost even more than that, and the taxpayer lost, as usual.

Will it set an example? I don’t know, but the programme did show some interesting tricks to would-be fraudsters.
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Old Jan 7th 2011, 11:41 am
  #314  
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Default Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

Originally Posted by billgates
Wtf has this got to do with benefit fraud I don't know...
Read the title what has that got to do with most of the respondents. How many owned up to being benefit cheats? Can't recall any

Jim
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Old Jan 7th 2011, 11:47 am
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Default Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

Will it set an example? I don’t know, but the programme did show some interesting tricks to would-be fraudsters.

I have picked up a few tips on this thread too
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