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Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

Old Jan 4th 2011, 8:56 am
  #271  
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Smile Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

Originally Posted by moving shortly View Post
Unfortunately Bil if you were in receipt of SRP when you applied for Carers Allowance you would be turned down, as both are taxable benefits so you are only entitled to one. Your mother or if not capable you should have applied for Attendance Allowance (for the 65's and over) there are two levels of payment for this benefit and it is meant for the person in receipt to pay for their own care if they are living in their own home. They would not be eligible for this payment however if they were living in a nursing home.
I do not think you are correct here you lose the benefit if you go into hospital or other NHS facility but if you go "private" you can keep it.
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Old Jan 4th 2011, 6:44 pm
  #272  
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Default Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

Originally Posted by John & Kath View Post
I do not think you are correct here you lose the benefit if you go into hospital or other NHS facility but if you go "private" you can keep it.
John and Kath,
Believe you me I know I am correct, regarding AA/CA/SRP. However I will be taken up on hospital (NHS) which I forgot to include and yes you are quite right you lose SRP now it used to be 12 weeks but I believe that has now been extended. If you go into a nursing home you lose your benefits including your SRP, you are given back a little to live on. Private hospital or a private nursing home when you are incapacitated I believe you need to inform the DWP of your change in circumstances which this would be you would then lose your benefit.
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Old Jan 4th 2011, 9:46 pm
  #273  
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Default Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

Wow I have been away for a while, a couple of weeks, good too see that there is still "healthy debate and friendly banter" going on,

First things first, Happy new year to all.

I have ben reading this thread, very long and winding, but interesting neverthe less.

I would just like to say a couple of things, one is, for all the folks that are claiming any type of long term benefit, thank yourselves lucky that you are not Spanish and reliant on the Spanish system for support in times of unemployment, sickness ect.

I have never heard of anyone geting a "life payment" for an ilness. I do howvern know people who should be getting financial help, but due to the Spanish gov. attitude of "tough titty" there is nowt available for them.

Also I have never heard of a Spaniard being able to relocate to another country,and export "benefits" with them, unlike folk from the UK.
When you are on any type of sickness benefit in Spain, you are not even allowed to leave the province, the argument is that if you are too ill to work, then you have no business travelling. This is not my view by the way, I am just telling it like it is for the Spanish. Exceptions can be made, you must ask permission to attend a wedding or other family event out of the province, and if you ar caugh without having asked permission, payment is stopped, with not comeback.

And it doesnt matter how many years you have been paying into the system, what counts is the here and now. There is no, "I have paid into the system for the last 35 years, so it is my right" attitude.

What counts in Spain is your current status.

As for knowing the language. to be able to navigate the system. that is a load of crap, the people I know who have come up against the beauroctatic wall are all Spanish. They are not igrnorant illiterates either, but normal hardworking people, who have been failed b y their own country in a time of need

People who have claimed the assistance for the over 52 after using all their dole up and are still waiting when nearing 55.

Others who have finished their dole and since the new year have had the 400ish euros a month stopped and a nice welcome into 2011.

As I have said before mayby you have to have been born outside the UK to appreciate how bad other countries look after their own by comparrison.

People talk about the heating bills being lower in Spain, it mayby true on the mild costas, but try living through a harsh winter in Soria or Segovia (worse than the UK), a lot on here seem to think that Spain ends 15 miles inland. It does not and some of the stupid comments on here amaze me, I think some are so blind.

I speak as someone with a foot in both camps. a lot on here think they do but really have not idea of the truth and hardship that is out there for the locals. If they did there would not be so much bellyaching about how terrible the UK is or how it is lacking.
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Old Jan 4th 2011, 9:55 pm
  #274  
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Default Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

Originally Posted by JLFS View Post

As I have said before mayby you have to have been born outside the UK to appreciate how bad other countries look after their own by comparrison.
Agree, a lot of good points there, but they still like to slag the UK off, it's in their nature.
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Old Jan 4th 2011, 11:31 pm
  #275  
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Default Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

Originally Posted by JLFS View Post
Wow I have been away for a while, a couple of weeks, good too see that there is still "healthy debate and friendly banter" going on,

First things first, Happy new year to all.

I have ben reading this thread, very long and winding, but interesting neverthe less.

I would just like to say a couple of things, one is, for all the folks that are claiming any type of long term benefit, thank yourselves lucky that you are not Spanish and reliant on the Spanish system for support in times of unemployment, sickness ect.

I have never heard of anyone geting a "life payment" for an ilness. I do howvern know people who should be getting financial help, but due to the Spanish gov. attitude of "tough titty" there is nowt available for them.

Also I have never heard of a Spaniard being able to relocate to another country,and export "benefits" with them, unlike folk from the UK.
A lot of food for thought there for British whingers.
They'd do better just keeping stum, in case Cameron and Co get similar ideas to the Spanish.
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Old Jan 5th 2011, 3:44 am
  #276  
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Default Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

Originally Posted by moving shortly View Post
Scampi
Did you realise that alongside the changes with Incapacity Benefit to ESA that this government intend to look at ALL in receipt of DLA to include those who have indefinite awards? Yes, I knew that. 'Indefinite' does not mean 'for life'. It means an unspecified period. I believe this will start in the next year or two. Did you also realise that those who lose their IB in the change over to ESA may well have/have had their DLA cancelled and be looked at straight away? It will not be cancelled straight away, if at all, it will depend upon the results of the medical reports.Most will keep their DLA This is due to the ATOS assessments. Also 40% of those who were refused ESA on appeal are reinstated? That is good, isn't it?

What a total waste of taxpayers money ATOS are. I am not sure if the general public realises that the last government have made millionaires out of the owners of ATOS this government continues to line the pockets of this organisation as well.

I apologise in advance to the site managers if I am not allowed to mention company names.
See my comments in blue above.

I have heard of these conspiracy theories many, many times and on the whole don't believe them. (You haven't been reading a particular scaremongering website, have you?) Although some people of course will slip through the net I believe most will have a fair result. And for those who do slip through, there is still the right of appeal, many of which are successful, as you mention above.

The criteria for ESA are different to those for IB. They look at what you can do, rather than what you can't.

And surely you don't expect people to NEVER have a check-up if they are receiving public money?

Last edited by scampicat; Jan 5th 2011 at 3:46 am.
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Old Jan 5th 2011, 3:49 am
  #277  
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Default Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

Originally Posted by moving shortly View Post
John and Kath,
Believe you me I know I am correct, regarding AA/CA/SRP. However I will be taken up on hospital (NHS) which I forgot to include and yes you are quite right you lose SRP now it used to be 12 weeks but I believe that has now been extended. If you go into a nursing home you lose your benefits including your SRP, you are given back a little to live on. Private hospital or a private nursing home when you are incapacitated I believe you need to inform the DWP of your change in circumstances which this would be you would then lose your benefit.
You don't actually lose your AA and SRP. You are still entitled to them. However, if there is no other income, they go straight to the home to pay for your keep (which of course you would also have to pay for if you lived in your own home). I think you get about £20 a week to keep.
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Old Jan 5th 2011, 8:35 am
  #278  
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Default Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

Originally Posted by JLFS View Post

People talk about the heating bills being lower in Spain, it mayby true on the mild costas, but try living through a harsh winter in Soria or Segovia (worse than the UK), a lot on here seem to think that Spain ends 15 miles inland. It does not and some of the stupid comments on here amaze me, I think some are so blind.

I speak as someone with a foot in both camps. a lot on here think they do but really have not idea of the truth and hardship that is out there for the locals. If they did there would not be so much bellyaching about how terrible the UK is or how it is lacking.
Having been part of a "healthy debate with JFLS" in the past I find myself completely agreeing with this post!
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Old Jan 5th 2011, 1:01 pm
  #279  
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Default Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

Originally Posted by whitelinen View Post
Not for me because nobody here can explain why a SIP card is cancelled for a Brit when he stops paying autonomos but not for a Spaniard.


What is needed is a link to the conditions for applying for free Spanish health care and benefits when a Brit has severe financial problems and cannot support himself and or his family.
Your bang on here , I know of several trades men who have all had the healthcare stopped after signing off the autonomo ,its usually after around two months you cant get a doctors appointment, two have used a Spanish gestor to try and rectify this but to no avail ,where as Spanish autonomos never have this problem ,guess cricketman dose not know any autonomos ho have sighned off.
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Old Jan 5th 2011, 3:29 pm
  #280  
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Default Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

Amazed this thread has had so much mileage but it's nice to see so many have kept a sense of proportion.
There are some 9,000 IB claimants in Spain what % are frauds is a debate in itself.
I couldn't help but wonder how many expat pensioners there are here who have sent back their winter fuel payments
There is only one statistic that means anything today and that's this, 1% of the population have more than the rest of the 99% put together and it's from this abhorrent truth that all other evils eminate
Only to add that ALL geniune IB claimants are very grateful and humble to be able to get financial support paid for by good hard working people which is so appreciated in their daily suffering.
All geniune IB claimants in Spain have probably had to give up family,friends, medical support and yes benefits to live here, soley to find some amount of relief to their endless suffering.
ALL fraudsters need locking up
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Old Jan 5th 2011, 3:32 pm
  #281  
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Default Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

Originally Posted by twistedmelon View Post
Amazed this thread has had so much mileage but it's nice to see so many have kept a sense of proportion.
There are some 9,000 IB claimants in Spain what % are frauds is a debate in itself.
I couldn't help but wonder how many expat pensioners there are here who have sent back their winter fuel payments
There is only one statistic that means anything today and that's this, 1% of the population have more than the rest of the 99% put together and it's from this abhorrent truth that all other evils eminate
Only to add that ALL geniune IB claimants are very grateful and humble to be able to get financial support paid for by good hard working people which is so appreciated in their daily suffering.
All geniune IB claimants in Spain have probably had to give up family,friends, medical support and yes benefits to live here, soley to find some amount of relief to their endless suffering.
ALL fraudsters need locking up
I will go with that 100%, with the caveat that enforcement against fraud has to be done from the top down. If not, my opinion is that fraud there effectively legitimises fraud further down the chain.
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Old Jan 5th 2011, 3:40 pm
  #282  
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Default Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

Originally Posted by twistedmelon View Post
Amazed this thread has had so much mileage but it's nice to see so many have kept a sense of proportion.
There are some 9,000 IB claimants in Spain what % are frauds is a debate in itself.
I couldn't help but wonder how many expat pensioners there are here who have sent back their winter fuel payments
There is only one statistic that means anything today and that's this, 1% of the population have more than the rest of the 99% put together and it's from this abhorrent truth that all other evils eminate
Only to add that ALL geniune IB claimants are very grateful and humble to be able to get financial support paid for by good hard working people which is so appreciated in their daily suffering.
All geniune IB claimants in Spain have probably had to give up family,friends, medical support and yes benefits to live here, soley to find some amount of relief to their endless suffering.
ALL fraudsters need locking up
One very good post..........


Originally Posted by bil View Post
I will go with that 100%, with the caveat that enforcement against fraud has to be done from the top down. If not, my opinion is that fraud there effectively legitimises fraud further down the chain.

Follwed by another.........
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Old Jan 5th 2011, 3:48 pm
  #283  
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Default Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

Originally Posted by bil View Post
I will go with that 100%, with the caveat that enforcement against fraud has to be done from the top down. If not, my opinion is that fraud there effectively legitimises fraud further down the chain.
What's the old saying....if you leave a fox to look after the chicken shed.
It's clear that no government has had the inclination or ability to stop the real fraudsters.
At least the 3 Kings gave back something
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Old Jan 5th 2011, 4:07 pm
  #284  
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Smile Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

Originally Posted by moving shortly View Post
John and Kath,
Believe you me I know I am correct, regarding AA/CA/SRP. However I will be taken up on hospital (NHS) which I forgot to include and yes you are quite right you lose SRP now it used to be 12 weeks but I believe that has now been extended. If you go into a nursing home you lose your benefits including your SRP, you are given back a little to live on. Private hospital or a private nursing home when you are incapacitated I believe you need to inform the DWP of your change in circumstances which this would be you would then lose your benefit.
"You don't actually lose your AA and SRP. You are still entitled to them. However, if there is no other income, they go straight to the home to pay for your keep (which of course you would also have to pay for if you lived in your own home). I think you get about £20 a week to keep."

I think the confusion here is between state funded care and self funded care. If you have more than £22,000 in savings then until you have run down those savings to below £22k you are a self funder. This includes any property you might own.

MIL is in self funded care and we have researched this very carefully since we are POA for her and have an obligation to maximise any income she may be entitled to receive from whatever source. I will start by saying that private care fees seem to vary between £500-1000 per week. You would be very lucky to find much at the lower end so lets take £750 so in a 30 day month thats about £3200 so you would soon be down to £22,000 unless you start off with an awful lot.

You are absolutly entitled to your state retirement pension payed at the highest rate for age ie over 75 plus your annual bonus, also your winter fuel allowance and whatever level of attendance allowance you might receive. We find that if you aggregate all these together they might pay for one weeks care a month in addition MIL has a small private widows pension that pays about 2/3 of another week per month so you eat into savings at a great rate. This after MIL and FIL having paid all dues into the system for 45 years each!

It is different if you are in a wholly or part state funded care home slot you are then expected to tip up all your state income and receive back the £20 pw. We have to take our POA duties very seriously indeed since the law requires us to do so and we are subject to scrutinity by the commisioners so we have researched and taken advice and we understand that the higher level attendance allowance is continued to be payed in our case.

Last edited by EsuriJohn; Jan 5th 2011 at 4:09 pm.
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Old Jan 5th 2011, 6:11 pm
  #285  
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Default Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?

Of course John and Kath, I was talking about State funded care. As you say if you can pay out of your own resources then that is what you do.

I know of someone who was able to fund herself out of her Private Pension, State Pension, Attendance Allowance and from the rent from her house, so she did not have to touch her savings (or sell her house) to fund her care.

Last edited by scampicat; Jan 5th 2011 at 6:13 pm.
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