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-   -   Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain? (https://britishexpats.com/forum/spain-75/you-benefit-fraud-living-spain-698293/)

agoreira Jan 1st 2011 10:46 am

Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?
 

Originally Posted by jackytoo (Post 9070450)
I am ashamed to say I have never been to Wales, maybe will do a recce this year:)

Like the rest of UK, lots of sh1tty bits, and lots of nice bits.


The whole benefit system is out of control and I don't think it will ever be fair.
If you mean unfair as in being abused, yep, that's always going to happen. However, as has been pointed out before, there are billions of pounds that go unclaimed every year, probably much more money than is fiddled. I was just reading about the increases coming in Spain this year and the stopping of some benefits. The cheque-bebé of €2,500 is gone, the €426 the unemployed have been getting finishes in February, that's going to affect a lot of people. Benefits in Spain are nowhere near as generous as UK, I think I prefer a system where the poor are better looked after, even if that means that occassionally there will whole families never having worked a day in their life.:frown: As for people getting benefits with no visible problems, I think they will be "mental" problems. Something very difficult to prove one way or the other, but all will have been assessed medically, and I understand it is now getting quite a bit more difficult to get these benefits.

scampicat Jan 1st 2011 11:07 am

Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?
 

Originally Posted by jackytoo (Post 9070450)
I am ashamed to say I have never been to Wales, maybe will do a recce this year:)

Back to benefits. I don't think I could cold-bloodily report anyone, even though I don't agree with the fiddlers. The whole benefit system is out of control and I don't think it will ever be fair.

Just a point about the disability allowance...if some people receiving it are not visibly affected, look healthy and appear to lead a normal life why should they get money for it:confused:

They may have heart disease, epilepsy, mental illness, crohns disease, cancer, AIDS,ASD.....not all disabilities/illnesses are visible and anyone can APPEAR to live a normal life.

My husband APPEARS to from anyone else's point of view. What people don't realise is that when his condition is really bad they just don't see him at all because he does not go out. When it is not so bad he puts on a 'mask'. The DWP have judged him as 'meeting the threshold of Incapacity', i.e he is not fit enough to work, therefore he is entitled to Incapacity Benefit. They do check on him periodically, the last time he had a medical in connection with his Benefit was about eighteen months ago, he had to see a DWP-appointed Dr in Marbella. The DWP also send him various forms and questionnaires every so often that have to be countersigned by our GP. He is nearly 62 and worked from when he was 15 until he was 55, for fifteen years of it with a mental health condition.

I'm sure there are a lot of people like him around, some of whom will be reported as fraudulent claimants, because they 'look healthy'. But please bear in mind that you may not know the full story.

jackytoo Jan 1st 2011 11:11 am

Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?
 
I don't understand why people with depression are paid not to work. Surely they will get more depressed lounging around at home with no routine:confused: Met someone living on the CDS. He retired early from a local authority job because of depression, good pension and disability allowance....couldn't make it up could you (well perhaps you could):rofl:

I think if people appear normal, can go out socialising, drinking in bars etc. then they could work, even if it is only answering the phone.

bil Jan 1st 2011 11:37 am

Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?
 

Originally Posted by jackytoo (Post 9070487)
I don't understand why people with depression are paid not to work. Surely they will get more depressed lounging around at home with no routine:confused: Met someone living on the CDS. He retired early from a local authority job because of depression, good pension and disability allowance....couldn't make it up could you (well perhaps you could):rofl:

I think if people appear normal, can go out socialising, drinking in bars etc. then they could work, even if it is only answering the phone.

I can assure you, that unless you have experience of this, or have had someone close to you suffer from depression, you cannot even begin to comprehend what you so blithely seem to disregard.

Depression kills. It destroys lives, and not just the victim's.

As for abuse of the system, what are you supposed to do? Penalise genuine claiments because a TINY minority get something for nothing?

It's already hard enough to get such benefit, and genuine claimants are routinely turned down, not because they aren't genuine, but because they have to turn down a certain % of claimants.

bil Jan 1st 2011 11:40 am

Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?
 

Originally Posted by jackytoo (Post 9070487)
I think if people appear normal, can go out socialising, drinking in bars etc. then they could work, even if it is only answering the phone.

I see, so if you sre ill, or chronically depressed, and they manage to get out to go to a pub and have a drink, make an effort to have some sort of social life, then that should negate their claim?

Surely you jest?

jackytoo Jan 1st 2011 11:47 am

Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?
 
I was refering to the person who I know. There are others, infact half the Brits on the coast seem to be on DA:sneaky:

montgomail Jan 1st 2011 11:48 am

Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?
 

Originally Posted by bil (Post 9070511)
I see, so if you sre ill, or chronically depressed, and they manage to get out to go to a pub and have a drink, make an effort to have some sort of social life, then that should negate their claim?

Surely you jest?

Unfortunately, a huge percentage of people remain ignorant in matters of mental health.

scampicat Jan 1st 2011 12:29 pm

Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?
 

Originally Posted by jackytoo (Post 9070487)
I don't understand why people with depression are paid not to work. Surely they will get more depressed lounging around at home with no routine:confused: Met someone living on the CDS. He retired early from a local authority job because of depression, good pension and disability allowance....couldn't make it up could you (well perhaps you could):rofl:

I think if people appear normal, can go out socialising, drinking in bars etc. then they could work, even if it is only answering the phone.

I have seen someone with very severe depression hospitalised for five months and not even knowing her husband. Even now, years later, she is on constant medication.

I have seen someone with less severe depression just sitting in front of the open fridge for half an hour because he could not get his head together enough to get the ingredients for a meal together.

I have seen someone else with depression with physical scars (as well as mental) because they have cut and burned themselves.

And my own husband could not answer the phone for nine months without it sending him into a hyper-ventilating, full-blown panic attack.

Yeah, of course, they can have a job answering the phone. :(


(That is assuming of course that anyone will employ them).

haydngj Jan 1st 2011 1:03 pm

Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?
 
I was ignorant about mental health until I had a breakdown at work.Everyone said not him he's the most layed back person in the office.A year off work and they all thought I was swinging the lead. Some of my own family thought that way,if the phone went I used to leave the room,if the doorbell went I went upstairs.I could force myself to go to the pub and act happy I am over it now and on my pension now and again I get upset over what later seems like nothing.If you are not qualified in mental health do not judge

angiescarr Jan 1st 2011 1:26 pm

Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?
 

Originally Posted by haydngj (Post 9070579)
I was ignorant about mental health until I had a breakdown at work.Everyone said not him he's the most layed back person in the office.A year off work and they all thought I was swinging the lead. Some of my own family thought that way,if the phone went I used to leave the room,if the doorbell went I went upstairs.I could force myself to go to the pub and act happy I am over it now and on my pension now and again I get upset over what later seems like nothing.If you are not qualified in mental health do not judge

Agreed! I am totally well now, have been for 15 years, but for several years suffered from incapacitating panic attacks triggered by post natal depression. It's a very difficult and long winded thing to cure. You can't understand it unless you've had it. But the nearest I can do to explain it is its like the feeling you get when you've very nearly been hit by a car. You jump back and then feel really weird. sweaty, panicky. That's an adrenalin response. People with Panic attacks get these feelings all the time, for apparently no good reason. The more they try to hold back these feelings, the more they engulf them.
People forget that mental health and Physical health are very closely linked.
The adrenal system is malfunctioning in people with panic attacks. So it's physical as well as mental. You can't separate the two.
Some people, like myself, can self diagnose and self cure. More are on medication for years. Believe me, for most it's not possible to get into work.
Even then I appeared confident and healthy on the surface. But that's part of the disease! Doctors don't help much actually. But that's another theme!
I needed benefits then, which is why I'm (almost) happy to pay my taxes now!
There are lazy sods around, and greedy ones, for sure. But even some of those are 'victims' in one way or another. Very few indeed claimants are just malingerers.

Lynn R Jan 1st 2011 1:53 pm

Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?
 
I have never reported anyone for benefit fraud, and don't think I ever could. I agree with those who have pointed out that people who may appear superficially to be 'healthy' could in fact have a serious condition that affects their ability to work.

What really does annoy me, however, is the attitude displayed by many people who would be described as 'respectable' but who commit many kinds of petty fraud and dishonesty (eg being resident in Spain but travelling back to the UK for NHS medical and dental treatment, falsely claiming that they have a UK address in order to continue to receive free bus passes, making fraudulent insurance claims, etc) that they are the ones who are being 'clever' by doing this and that I am stupid and naive by refusing to do so. I would stress that I am not making assumptions about these people, they have actually taken great delight in telling me exactly what they have done and how they went about it, as though they are expecting me to congratulate them or something.

What a sad reflection on modern morality. I have no religious beliefs but my parents brought me up to be honest and I would feel I was letting them down if I didn't uphold the standards they taught me.

bil Jan 1st 2011 2:04 pm

Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?
 

Originally Posted by jackytoo (Post 9070520)
I was refering to the person who I know. There are others, infact half the Brits on the coast seem to be on DA:sneaky:

Really? Facts to back that up, or is that just judgemental, spiteful speculation?

Read the other posts that came after this one of yours, and try and be a bit more understanding, eh?

bil Jan 1st 2011 2:09 pm

Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?
 
So let's see. So far we have the information that the money lost to false claims is far less than the unclaimed money, that the veracity of claims is only possible by trained people, and even they get that wrong at times.

I'm basing that on the pretty secure assumption, (based on personal experience) that the government does not hand out benefit money like the three kings dishing out sweets, but instead (a) requires proof and (b) arbitarily and randomly rejects even just claims.

So why the horrendous fuss that a SMALL number of sparrows are stealing crumbs?

scampicat Jan 1st 2011 2:58 pm

Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?
 

Originally Posted by haydngj (Post 9070579)
I was ignorant about mental health until I had a breakdown at work.Everyone said not him he's the most layed back person in the office.A year off work and they all thought I was swinging the lead. Some of my own family thought that way,if the phone went I used to leave the room,if the doorbell went I went upstairs.I could force myself to go to the pub and act happy I am over it now and on my pension now and again I get upset over what later seems like nothing.If you are not qualified in mental health do not judge

This is almost exactly the same as what happened to my husband.

jackytoo Jan 1st 2011 3:41 pm

Re: Are you a benefit fraud.. and living in Spain?
 
So these people who can barely pick up the phone yadda yadda, have somewhere found the ability to start a new life in Spain and all the stress that entails for normal people yet they have a meal ticket for life with DA:rolleyes:

Depression must be awful, especially for the people who live with them but I make no apologies for not being sympathetic. I have a relative who was in a car crash at 12. He is a paraplegic and so brain damaged cannot carry out a normal conversation except with family and carers who understand him. He went to Treloars college and managed to get some qualifications and now in his twenties works in IT 25 hours per week. Thousands of others do the same. Visiting Treloars breaks your heart, they should send some of these selfish people obsessed with their own problems to do a bit of work at Treloars to earn their benefit.

I don't give a toss what any of you benefit claimers say so carry on by all means!


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