fionamw

I think the working class bit rather depends if it's 'educated' or aspirational working class ? rather than the Jeremy Kyle guest types!

cricketman

I think working class is defined on whether someone has ever watched Jeremy Kyle..

bil

Educated and aspirational defines you almost as middle class.

I think working class would be defined as aspiring to be on the JK show.

jdr

Have they ever had a worker on that show ?

fionamw

ROFL (smileys unco-operative)

One thing's for certain.... the absence or presence of money is NO indicator of class of any hue.




(and nor is owning up to ever having watched JK......... !!!)

bil

Ever been to Southend in the UK? I found it a pretty ugly place, so I found it funny when someone described it as the holding pen for the JK show.

haydngj

The only thing that money does is help you keep up with the Jones'. The problem there is that the Jones' are keeping up with more Jones'.It's like the dog chasing it's own tail, never going to catch it. Be happy with what you have not be jealous of your neighbour

whitelinen

There is no such thing as nearly middle class, especially today when the unlikeliest of Brits think they actually are middle class.

Someone who has sufficient money and assets to last a lifetime and choses to work for whatever the reason can label himself any way he wants. The majority of what is left are working class and an under class. There is no middle class any more.

Dick Dasterdly

I don't think the old definitions really apply any more.
Take working class for instance.
In recent times, given a reasonable opportunity, a real worker or hard grafter would have little difficulty reaching a standard of living at least equivalent to what has commonly become accepted as middle class.
In today's world, the term working class is often wrongly misused by skivers, yobs, benefit thieves and lefty nutters, for whom real work is about the furthest thing from their minds.

bil

The class system has been muddied a bit, but none the less it remains. The middle class is bigger, because so many workers are now aspirational, whether that be to move up the ladder, educate their children or what.

I think I got a couple of words the wrong way round. I said "Educated and aspirational defines you almost as middle class." What I meant was, "Being educated and aspirational is almost the definition of middle class."

cricketman

Historically, in the UK, working class would have had far and away the largest number of people. The class system would have been something like this:

Upper Class = 1%
Middle Class = 15%
Working Class = 70%
Under Class = 15%

The Middle Class bracket, is maybe a bit wider now, say 25%, but the rest is about the same.

In the US, they use the term "middle class" very differently, because they only define class in terms of income.

In the UK, it is more complex, its more based on family, accent, education, job, income, assets and who your friends are

bil

Class is very entrenched in the UK To me, the middle class seems to have widened. I had assumed that it had increased at the 'expense ' of the working class % as the have become more aspirational.

fionamw

(i) I'm glad this thread's still going; did consider starting a 'class' one but you could predict what would happen!
(ii) I'm not sure accent is as relevant as vocabulary and use of English, though of course the two are arguably more likely to overlap in what's being defined as 'upper'.
(iii) Perhaps the reason the working class is shrinking is more to do with the shrinkage in the trades which used to make up the bulk of that now rare commodity - work.
(iv) Contentious perhaps, but my mother (what used to be defined as 'well bred'!) is a prime example of someone who treats everyone the same. Now that IS something to aspire to.

Dick Dasterdly

I don't think the class seperations are anything like as pronounced as they were many years ago.

For instance there are not so many real lords and ladies living in country castles with big estates these days, with upstairs, downstairs lifestyles and the like.

Many of those who have survived could quite easily be found in the local pub having a pint with the lads or one of their staff.

cricketman

Believe me, they are still there, I met a few in London

And the gap between the working class and middle class is still quite pronounced. I had the shock of my life when I went to university. The people there were very middle class and coming from a poorish Northern city, I'd never met people like that.