Re: Why Spain
 

That's only a problem if you let it be a problem. I have lived in Spain nearly 15 years now and speak reasonable Spanish and have worked with and socialise with Spanish people . I feel like an outsider because I am one and always will be I hope. I like being a foreigner in a foreign land - I don't want to become integrated whatever that means. I go to, and usually enjoy, the fiestas and other events and I find some of them a little strange and slightly bizarre. The day I feel 'at home' or 'integrated' is the day I move on.

Re: Why Spain
 

I think you make a good point, I have a Portuguese friend who has lived here 40 years kids and grandchildren here and he is about as fully integrated as it suppose it is possible to be. But there are still times when he hasn't got a clue what we're talking about and misses the nuances. He is retiring back to Portugal later this year because as he says 'that's home'. Perhaps as Cricketman wisely advised just 'just come for a few months a year and enjoy the weather.As hard as I try a thick cut slice of honey roast ham beats a sliver of fatty jamon anyday.

Re: Why Spain
 

:rofl: Love it

Gracia a la vida, soy andaluuu

Re: Why Spain
 

I don't pay for any meds here in uk,just been to doc; 200 dihyrocodeine,inhalerX2;xalatan eyedropsx2, no charge,the days of spain being a cheap retirement home for brits etc is all over. my cousin who built their own house in andalucia 25 years ago are trying to come home,but they cant even get half of what its worth,they are really up the creek and no paddle either, its not even a cheap holiday now, they've taxed themselves out of business,u.s.a for us this year.
the days of freebies for the sub continent are ending too.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk-news/20...evy-healthcare

Re: Why Spain
 

first of all, I only pay 10% of the normal retail value of my monthly meds, 2.54euros won't break the bank

most people in Andalucia who are having trouble selling houses actually built them on rustic land and therefore they are illegal builds. Andalucia has over 500,000 of those.
as to the price - well if someone who built a house 25 years ago can't get back the original cost + some profit then they really are in trouble.
its a buyers market, remember that happening in the UK, although 25yrs ago it was a sellers market, I bought a house on the rise. But then it was only 35k gbp, roughly what a house in Spain would have cost at that time.
so what someone thinks it may be worth in another country has no bearing on the matter.

`

Re: Why Spain
 

This is a great post and makes so much sense. Surely it is perfectly acceptable to live in Country's outside of the one you are born in without losing your essential self (hope that doesn't sound too poncy) It seems to be a view point that is lost on many, especially when questions of integration and non-integration are debated. It reminds me of another forum where people come on and with there first post say they want to come and live in the 'real' Spain and could anyone recommend where that is. It's all the real Spain.

Re: Why Spain
 

A typical tall Northern European with fair hair and blue eyes will stand out among typical Mediterranean people who tend to be smaller and darker. There is nothing racist about that comment, it's a fact established by climate over millions of years.

It makes integration for wanderers from both places a lot harder. The Nordic wanderers are in Spain in great numbers, at least a million of them, and they do congregate in places where they meet others who look like them.

I'm such a wanderer and have got used to what I see in the mirror. It's what the check-out girl in Mercadona sees too, which is why she tells me the amount I owe in English. It still annoys me, slightly, after all those years of trying to learn Spanish.

Re: Why Spain
 

My husband was asked to be the official photographer at a First Communion even though we are not Catholic (although we are Christians and worshipped at the village church occasionally), and also our Spanish is basic.

IMHO this is because the people in our village are just very inclusive and friendly, I was told by one of my neighbours when I asked if it was OK for us to go to the services even though we are not Catholic that 'God is for everyone' (which I totally agree with).

Re: Why Spain
 

- well if someone who built a house 25 years ago can't get back the original cost + some profit then they really are in trouble.
its a buyers market, remember that happening in the UK, although 25yrs ago it was a sellers market, I bought a house on the rise. But then it was only 35k gbp, roughly what a house in Spain would have cost at that time.
so what someone thinks it may be worth in another country has no bearing on the matter.

`[/QUOTE]Fellow next to me sold his apartment for €80,000... one across the pool is going for €120,000. I asked him why so cheap.. He told me it only cost him €10,000 when build.. and no way will they the other people get €120,000.

Re: Why Spain
 

:D nice to see 'Hot Gossip' still performing thirty years down the line.

Re: Why Spain
 

Fellow next to me sold his apartment for €80,000... one across the pool is going for €120,000. I asked him why so cheap.. He told me it only cost him €10,000 when build.. and no way will they the other people get €120,000.[/QUOTE]

looking at some if not most estate agent websites, many of the houses have been on the market for 5 or 6 years and are ridiculously high. We made an offer of 20% off on one and were refused immediately.
Problem is the property is the only investment so they need the inflated price to buy in the UK where despite falls the prices are much higher than SP.

I made an offer on a property in Almeria but because it turned out to be Illegal withdrew. The property was back on the market inside a week, they will keep trying to sell it until someone makes a mistake and misses the illegality. Sheer desperation.!!

it is only those legal properties that are value for money that are selling

`

Re: Why Spain
 

It's not fact at all, it is complete nonsense

Spaniards under 40 are exactly the same height as Brits, Americans or Dutch people under 40

The small Spaniards are those who grew up in hard times when nutrition was limited, mainly the over 60s

As for being blonde and blue eyed, there are plenty of those up here! Northen Spaniards are of Celtic descent, but even Andalucians can be blonde and blue eyed, remember El Cordobés, the famous bull fighter?

The seperate point about "losing your true identity" if you integrate into Spanish society is absolute rubbish also. I have only speaken Spanish outside of my home in the past 6 years, I havent lost anything, but I have gained a lot of insight and a lot of friends. I am the same person as 6 years ago, only a little wiser

Re: Why Spain
 

I always have a little chuckle, when I read on of the points in Spains favour is "no rat race".:D

It is as though there is a strongly marked divide, UK mad rushing crowds, Spain no mad rushing crowds.

Could the "no rat race" opinion come from the fact that they no longer work?

There are millions of people in the UK who have never been in the rat race, living in a sleepy Cotswold village, and working in the local gift shop for example.

And there are millions of people in Madrid and Barcelona who are in the rat race, long crowded commute, gridlock traffic, rushing about trying to get the kids to school, high rents, big mortgages, shopping on the run etc.

Do people actually believe that there is no rat race in Spain, or in any other country in the world?

Just because some posters don´t work in big towns and cities in Spain, have they really forgotton that those who do face the same conditions as those in the UK and all other countries.

The people who are suffering most in Spain are the working poor with kiddies, the mileuristas (amount now reduced due to cuts).

No free dentists for the children, terrible charges for pprescriptiondrugs, for the lucky poster who only pays 3 euros for an inhaler that would cost double in the UK, that is not the case for many.

Not even free prescriptions for chronic conditions, it all has to be paid for by the hard working locals.

Some on here actually make me gasp at the shortsightedness that they show in their posts about the relaxed lifestyle in Spain, they have not got a clue, just because they sit and look out at the olive trees from the terrace, most Spanish people don´t.


Get real people and let´s not paint Spain as being ideal even when talking about the weather.

Most of Spain does not have the MED climate.

In the north and centre the weather can be a freezing.

And for all those who claim not to have moved to Spain for the sun, can I ask why, as there are far more beautiful places than the southern costas, but the weather is not great (very similar to the UK).

Re: Why Spain
 

looking at some if not most estate agent websites, many of the houses have been on the market for 5 or 6 years and are ridiculously high. We made an offer of 20% off on one and were refused immediately.
Problem is the property is the only investment so they need the inflated price to buy in the UK where despite falls the prices are much higher than SP.

I made an offer on a property in Almeria but because it turned out to be Illegal withdrew. The property was back on the market inside a week, they will keep trying to sell it until someone makes a mistake and misses the illegality. Sheer desperation.!!

it is only those legal properties that are value for money that are selling

`[/QUOTE]

It's odd when you read modern prices and try and put it into context in the here and now, the first place we bought in Spain was the equivalent of £5000 although obviously it was in Pesetas at the time as it was 73/74 it's hard to make a loss on something like that. At least the fella next to you took the realistic and sensible view and so didn't end up sitting on a property for six years that he didn't want, so good for him.

Re: Why Spain
 

well written by someone who has "come home"

didn't know there were millions of gift shops in the Cotswolds ;)
perhaps that is why so many people get on the motorways at 0530, to get away from them and drive/train into the big cities.

and once again I have to remind you that even in Andalucia the weather can be freezing in the winter, and the spring this year with snow falling in Granda in April and IIRC May as well.

Despite the differences in the past twixt kings, queens, religions, etc there are reasonable ties between Sp and Uk, perhaps because we don't have a common border.
Pull out the expats of all nations living in the Iberian Peninsular and see how quickly the income will go down.
Pull the expats out of the UK and see little differences, other than corner shops will not be open long hours 7days due to religious tolerance, perhaps there would be an improvement in healthcare if we did away with all the expats who are making a bad job of taking over the NHS.
Perhaps we should stop off-shoring jobs to places like India and the Philipines and do them in the UK instead.
but then some Brits would have to work for a living to keep the expats in Spain to the manner they are accustomed.
:rofl:

Re: Why Spain
 

I never knew you were so racist Domino! You've shocked me

Re: Why Spain
 

I know someone who bought a place for around €27,000 equivalent in the 90's. Just a holiday home they decided to sell it as they wanted to travel the world. 4 years ago they put it on at €250,000. last year they reduced it to €199,000. I can't understand why they don't drop it more instead of sitting on it when they are old.

Re: Why Spain
 

I don't think Domino is being racist. He's being unrealistic perhaps (eg stopping all outsourcing) and anti-immigration to the UK. But it's not quite the same thing.

Re: Why Spain
 

Domino is saying that all immigrants have a negative impact in the UK, but all British immigrants in Spain have a positive impact

I can't think of anything more racist than that wrong assumption

Re: Why Spain
 

Actually I don't think he is saying that - I think he is saying that that's what the net results are. He might be wrong about that as well...

Re: Why Spain
 

how can you call someone else racist after this................

and once again you are trying to read between the lines that aren't there. it isnt a racist comment, but then if in doubt use the R word and see people run for their NAH-NAH-NAH-NAH sound blocking device whilst sucking their thumbs.

`

Re: Why Spain
 

oh probably will be wrong - just not allowed to actually put it into operation to find out, so it is all projections and algorithms

Re: Why Spain
 

We lived in the Canaries for our first 6 years outside of the UK. Yes, the weather took us there initally. It was either Canaries or Italy... and a safety net of friends swung it for us.

Last summer we moved to the Mainland and are very happy so far. We are no longer in the goldfish bowl resort lifestyle, which had many benefits... but we much prefer our little home in the hills. Only 3 or 4 sets of neighbours live in our tiny aldea (all Spanish), and it's very quiet. For some, being 8km from the nearest shop or bar would be hell - but it suits us perfectly. We won't be there forever... as we want to buy at some point and are open to other parts of the country... but it will be home for the next few years at least.

What's Spain got that the UK hasn't? For me personally, it is a better standard of health. The air is cleaner here than where we were, and I have some space on which to grow our own goodies (not that I do - I manage to kill everything). My asthma is all but gone, and I no longer have to live on certain types of medication. That would be different if I were comparing a large Spanish city with a rural area in the UK... but I'm not, I'm only speaking from a personal standpoint.

Oh yeah - Spain also has a national footie team that actually wins stuff ;)

Elle xx

Re: Why Spain
 

Hmm. I was always led to believe native Europeans were pretty much all of the same "race". Different nationalities, perhaps, but race? Well, it makes a good argument when you disagree with someone else's opinion, I reckon.

Anyway, I still haven't figured out why so many seem to list their houses for far above their legitimate market value, leaving it there for 5 or more years, whilst every immobiliaria tells them it's extremely overpriced and there's no chance of a sale. But they won't budge, and the property just sits and depreciates.

I've overheard the locals discussing it at times, and the general impression I get of their attitude is that they seem to believe their properties are worth millions, and the €600K they are asking for a property worth €200K is already a 50% discount. Perhaps they seem to be sure of this because of the fish tales told by their neighbours and friends, "I got over a Million for mine" (when they actually were forced to accept a 200K offer to cover their debts).

But there they sit. I know one place in the neighbourhood that's been for sale and empty for over 7 years. It's all overgrown and looking very shabby now, but he still won't budge on the price.

Again, I still tend to think competition is a rather new concept here. Overpricing, however, is and age-old practice.

Re: Why Spain
 

what is unrealistic about shipping jobs to India and Bangladesh that CAN be done in the UK. And more unrealistic after shipping the jobs out, getting the national govt to pay subsidies under the pretext of "Aid" and the EU govt to also pay subsidies under the pretext of "Aid" whilst also allowing such countries to trade tariff free.
This pushes the bubble into the wrong shape, people in places like Spain and UK lose jobs whilst their hard earned is going to support the people who have undercut them because of subsidies from their own govts.

lets get a bit of balance on this, lets get each country to stand on its own two feet, without all this aid slushing around (less than 50% actually gets to the right people anyway).
Stop the UK from stealing trained nurses and doctors from other countries to "make quota's" when they are needed in their own country.
Stop offering residency and nationality to people from across the world who work as slaves tending the sick and elderly when there are people around who can do the job - but won't because the benefits aretoo high.

rant over, out to the pub for a tubo............

Re: Why Spain
 

If you are going to use that argument, then there is only one race anyway, the human race

"Racism" is a shorthand for those who think that certain nationalities or people who look a certain way are inferior to other nationalities or to people who look a slightly different way

As you well know

Re: Why Spain
 

ISTR Fred James (?) making the comment about being able to see hundreds of houses from his place that are all dark in the week, but the lights come on for the weekend.

the only drawback on a large price cut is the Hacienda being so paranoid the think everyone is passing little brown envelopes under the desk and use the high price for the tax valuation.
:thumbdown:

Re: Why Spain
 

spoken like a middle class snob who has been to university

what a pity you don't read the stories about graduates stacking shelves at Tesco's - when they have proved they are intelligent enough.

`

ps why isnt this thread in PDT??

Re: Why Spain
 

Just like you do with class, eh?

You seem to bang on about your middle class circles, middle class family etc, to the point of obsession and have got it all worked out that the lower class Spanish won´t be using the AVE.

As I said before a first class tit.

You really do take the buiscuit.:thumbdown::thumbdown:

Re: Why Spain
 

Welcome back, CMan.

For while there, I was worried that you might be morphing into some variety of "rational" and actually checking with your brain before embarrassing yourself in writing.

But I'm delighted to see you're back to your charming old self. In this case, you were actually able to distinguish between all those other "races" such as "Austrians", "Belgians", "poor", "rich", "disabled" and what not, and even more exciting, using the same thought process, you were able to reckon that people who disagree with you are actually "racist". Well, that's a very good start, Einstein. I'm very proud of you!

Many sincere laughs from the only one who truly loves you as you are.

Re: Why Spain
 

I was making a point of my physical appearance making it harder to integrate. My wife however, although London born, has no such hindrances. She has lived in Spain for most of her life and brought up two Spanish children along the way.

She's a brunette of medium height with total fluency in Spanish and has all the mannerisms as well. Most Spanish people are surprised when she speaks to them in English.

If you can judge people's integration levels by the language of their dreams and the occasional nightmare, then she is Spanish.

(I hope I'm not the cause of those nightmares, but who knows?)

Re: Why Spain
 

my BH is short, dark, often taken for a Spanish senorita until she tells them No Hablo Espanol in broad Essex
:rofl:

Re: Why Spain
 

Sentiment wise I agree with a lot of that. But it's just unviable in today's world. Yes, you can cancel outsourcing and bring the jobs home - and then the company closes because it can't compete with others that do use the 3 dollars a day worker. And yes you can stop poaching of nurses and doctors elsewhere - but to keep our hospitals open we'd need to ban our trained nurses and doctors from seeking better paid work in the ME or US. Not going to happen, is it, if we stay a free and open country?

Re: Why Spain
 

My husband always says my limited Spanish is spoken with a West Midlands accent. My argument is that the people where I lived spoke it with an Andaluz accent :), so what's the difference?

Re: Why Spain
 

They got stuffed the other night! But I read in the Spanish newspaper it was the ref what did it, so that's OK.;)

Re: Why Spain
 

Well we certainly cannot produce electronic gadgets here. The labour costs would put you out of business before you shipped your first product.

We like to believe it's all the fault of those asians who run sweatshops, but I just watched yet another documentary on China, comparing lifestyles and working conditions to 20 years ago, and it seems the vast majority of asians are living a far better standard than they ever have.

It's all relative. We have become so accustomed to having the highest salaries, lowest work hours, and most generous benefits in the world, that we just can't imagine living with less. And anybody that does is a slave. But we're all to eager to get that €150 smart phone or €199 led tv, which we could never possibly produce at that price.

Slaves? Well, it's all relative.
Stupid? Apparently not.

Re: Why Spain
 

Oh... that's ok then. :rofl:

Re: Why Spain
 

Yes, penalised Spain with yellow cards but let those beastly Brazilians get away with murder.:rofl:
http://www.abc.es/deportes/futbol/20...307010030.html

Re: Why Spain
 

Wonder which game that guy was watching ?
I thought they were lucky to get off with only the one red for what was a shocking tackle when the game was virtually over anyway.
They were chucking their handbags around like they were going out of fashion earlier on and got away very lightly I thought.

Re: Why Spain
 

many of the SP's my BH works with are not from Andalucia, but even those who come from other parts of A say that the Granada villages don't speak proper, more a gutter SP. Considering some of the things I have picked up on they could be right, but perhaps Granada is more the Brummie or Essex of Spain.
;)

But its all a great experience
:thumbsup: