Where is everyone?
 

Hi everybody,
I would like to move to Spain in the future and plan on having a quick break in September to get an insight into what it would be like to live there as opposed to just being on holiday in a resort. Which areas have a large expat population which would be good to visit?

Re: Where is everyone?
 

Hola
Due to the problems of being a third country and all it entails, i believe ex-pat areas will undergo a massive change. My point is what is a large ex-pat area now may in a couple of years, be a shell of what it was.

Davexf

Re: Where is everyone?
 

I agree with that. Our place in Spain is east of Malaga and until a few years ago, there were quite a few UK nationals in this immediate area and 20kms away on the coast but now they are a rarity. As the British have sold up and left, other Northern Europeans have taken their place and properties around here are selling quite quickly.

Re: Where is everyone?
 

Apart from the challenges Dxf mentioned, most Expats will be living in larger cities. Our place is just over an hour further north from Barcelona and the nearest town has a foreign population of around 37%. Overall the foreign population is 20% in Selva area, Baix Emporda same and Alt Emporda even 25% in total. But I'm sure there are even more in other parts of Spain.

Re: Where is everyone?
 

As mentioned by others and echoed by me, areas are changing.
We live inland of Albir near to Polop. Fifteen years ago when we first visited 35% of the population of this town (pop 5000 approx) were foreigners and British people made up most of that. We moved finally here last year and the town now states that there are about 30% foreigners and we hear German, Dutch, French and scandinavian accents all the time. Just a small enclave of British and very few new arrivals over the last couple of years.
The tiny village we are in was mainly British when the flats were built (2004) but now less than 30% are owned by Brits.

The problem of expat areas be they British, German or whatever is that you might as well go on holiday to that country.

On the Alfaz to Albir road here is a supermarket (Costablanca) that caters almost entirely for non Spanish people.

To answer your question. Anywhere on any of the main Costa's will do.
Costa Blanca form Denia down past Alicante is nice. There are many towns with expat communities but that also feel Spanish. You do need to be careful though because some places are like ghost towns outside of the summer even if lots of foreigners live there.

As you have time why not start making a list of what you want from a permanent home and then use Google and maps to explore these areas.
Good luck and if you need info about specific places just ask, someone will have some ideas for you.

Re: Where is everyone?
 

I suppose there is also a difference if we are talking about retired or working Expats. We have stopped in Empuriabrava which is apparently the largest residential marina in Europe and around 50% of the population are foreigners, mainly retired. Then you have a huge amount of holiday homes and the population can drop from 100.000 in summer to 7000 in winter.

Re: Where is everyone?
 

Welcome Browny2004,
Are you aware of the requirements to become a resident in Spain, following on from Brexit, will apply to you?

Re: Where is everyone?
 

Most who have left will likely have been here illegally and 'forced' out because of it, good riddance to them I say.

Other than that and save for one lady I know who sold up and went back to UK after her husband died I know no one at all who has been legal and left.

Brit pensioners are dying breed though as few will be able to meet the new financial requirements, the days of rocking up and living on a couple of basic UK state pensions are gone.

Re: Where is everyone?
 

A lot of expats would have returned home because of covid. The future is bleak tbh especially If you rely on tourism to live.

Re: Where is everyone?
 

Why on earth would people who are established in Spain and own a property go back to the UK because of Covid? The British people I am referring to left Spain before Covid kicked in and they will not be replaced because of Brexit. Spain have run an excellent vaccine programme and have now overtaken the UK. They have also been vaccinating non residents.

However, ​I do agree that future looks very bleak in the UK.

Re: Where is everyone?
 

Maybe he was referring to people who work in the hospitality industry.

Re: Where is everyone?
 

You tell me. Why did the established expats return home to the UK?

Re: Where is everyone?
 

To get to the other side?

Chicken joke.


:getcoat:

Re: Where is everyone?
 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-brits-are-buying-holiday-homes-again-on-the-costa-del-sol-fvcrdwz9
Brexit won’t stop Brits residing in Spain. A strong pound and sky high property prices in the UK. When Covid settles and Boris fully allows for Brits to fly in and out without having to isolate. It’s cheaper nowadays to go on holiday in Spain than it is to have a holiday in the UK.

Re: Where is everyone?
 

If you want to read the whole article, here it is without the paywall.

It says upmarket areas have more interest, cheaper areas less interest from Brits, the guy who's wife had cancer probably still hasn't worked out healthcare costs after Brexit, and it finishes by listing three expensive houses at the bottom of the article.

In other words, those people who don't have half a million in the bank burning a hole in their pocket are going to miss freedom of movement and from now on these "place in the sun" stories are just going to focus on those people who can afford it. It sucks to be young, poor, and interested in Spain for reasons which go beyond it having a hot ball of fire in the sky though.

Re: Where is everyone?
 

Brexit will stop people residing in Spain if they don't meet the minimum income criteria. Of course Brits will still take holidays in Spain but many will find the third country residency process a nightmare. Is that why you are applying for an Irish passport?

​​​​​​

Re: Where is everyone?
 

Agreed. Brexit closes doors for the vast majority of people, it doesn't open them. UK nationals with a modest income/pension from the UK could easily move to Spain and support themselves but Brexit has taken that opportunity away from them.

Re: Where is everyone?
 

There is no criteria for rocking up in Spain and buying a house. Or even renting. Which is what the Brits are doing. As it’s still cheaper to do that than it is to even get a caravan in the UK these days.

Re: Where is everyone?
 

Whilst there's no criteria to rock up and buy, there's the personal criteria of having cash in the bank. Someone without the cash or a substantial wedge of cash isn't getting a Spanish mortgage and getting a loan from the UK is pretty hard unless you're remortgaging a UK house to pay for the Spanish house. The old school of expat early retired renters generally didn't have much in the way of fluid capital. As already mentioned, the high end of the market is fine for expats for those reasons.

There are 3 main types of buyer; holiday home owner, investor and full time expat. The first is usually financially secure and buys a house or higher end apartment without a loan, the second is looking at looking at high returns on rent and third is looking for somewhere to live with a mortgage. The category that's disappearring is the investor who bit off more than they could chew by buying a holiday home and trying to make ends meet with holiday rentals.

Back to the original question, the big cities have large expat communities but as mentioned they are mostly of working age. The Brit enclaves are dotted around the country depending on their interests; golf, sun, cheap wine, A Place in the Sun, anything but Boris a peaceful life close enough to pop over the the UK to visit family.

As for the areas, I would suggest searching for areas that appeal to you and take several winter holidays then rent in your favourite for a year. For me, Valenica is ideal as it has the city, the beach, the mountains and flight schedules for the places I regularly visit. I'm not interested in golf, curry nights, Sunday roasts or liver damage but it's also close to places that specialise in those pastimes.

Re: Where is everyone?
 

You don’t need to be a big earner to own property or rent in Spain. My friend has just had to fork out £1200 for a weeks stay for a caravan in Devon. You can rent a 4 bedroom flat in Spain for £300 a month. It’s peanuts. I bought my house out right it was that cheap. Needs a bit of work but still it’s 20 times cheaper than it would have been if it was in England. That’s why Brits will continue to buy , rent and stay in Spain.

Re: Where is everyone?
 

That's the point, you bought it outright and you're not a resident so don't need to meet any requirement. I very much doubt anyone would get a Spanish mortgage to buy a Spanish property as an holiday home and the only way around it is to remortgage a UK property and use the proceeds. Our bank wouldn't entertain a mortgage until we had the account and residency for over 1 year and 30% deposit despite being well over the national income requirements for residency and having overseas assets. Renting for a holiday is very different to renting to live, unless you go the AirBnB or cash route which is only suitable for holidays and living under the radar. We had to prove income, employment status, show bank statements, have NIE, give a 2 month deposit etc..

Brits can't stay permanently in Spain unless they meet the requirements. The likelihood of someone renting a 300 Euro flat meeting those requirements are slim.

Where are you seeing 4 bedroom flats for 300/month and are they habitable? You can add a zero for that in a lot of places.

Re: Where is everyone?
 

Spain has now a 1% lead over the UK on single vaccination but is behind on the full vaccination programme IIRC. Here in the UK if you want the jab you can have it and youngsters are next on the list to be vaccinated so its more the case of getting people off their bums and going for vaccination more than Spain having a better programme.

Economic growth ratings put the UK 5th and Spain 14th so can you expand on whats 'bleak' for the UK?

Re: Where is everyone?
 

Quote...."You can rent a 4 bedroom flat in Spain for £300 a month"

I think you are exaggerating a little bit there...unless it's a dump in the middle of nowhere.

Steve

Re: Where is everyone?
 

As long as you have the required deposit, It is still possible to get a mortgage as a non resident and this still seems to be the case:

For GBP earners wanting a fixed rate, there are only a few banks we can approach. One of these usually insists on the client taking out a single-premium life cover policy, which many clients don’t like. Also, for British clients only, the same lender has reduced the maximum debt-to-income level from 35% to 20% and they have also reduced maximum borrowing for British clients from 70% to 60%. The result is that far fewer British clients can now qualify for a mortgage with this lender.

Despite the increased difficulty of qualifying with the above lender, for a standard enquiry and loan of around €200.000 the fixed rates are still very attractive at 2.15% fixed for 20 years, for example. Another bank offering fixed rates to British clients does not require them to take any life cover out and is offering a slightly higher rate at 2.65% fixed for 20 years, although we are usually able to secure a discount for our clients.


For us based in Ireland it is of course easier and switched to a fixed rate myself now. I spoke to the agent and she said that there are still plenty of Brits getting mortgages approved.
In relation to SanNico's comment about renting a 4 bed for 300 a month I totally agree. You would not get anything in our area and certainly not near the coast were most people want to be.

Re: Where is everyone?
 

I rent a 4 bedroom flat with two bathrooms and air conditioning for €350 a month. Electricity is expensive though lol especially with these record breaking heat waves. And that’s in Catalonia in a middle class area in a nice peaceful village in the mountains. Council houses are twice that in the UK.

Re: Where is everyone?
 

Yes exactly....in the mountains is not where most Expats choose to rent apartments!! That's why it's so cheap.

Steve

Re: Where is everyone?
 

The mountains are full of expats as the river Ebro runs right thought it making it one of the best places on the planet for anglers. So many British here buying up land and houses. Fishing is big business here people get bookings year in advance.

Re: Where is everyone?
 

The more I read your posts the more I think this is a wind up account. You rent this as well as owning another place there? Or do you mean you bought the place and rent it out for 350 per month? 4 beds and 2 baths with a/c in a middle class tranquil area sound very appealling for that price. Send me a link and I'll rent it as a weekend bolthole.

Re: Where is everyone?
 

Sure with the rates so low these days many peoples mortgage would be around this or only slightly higher in parts where you only need to borrow 100K. But if I look on Idealista and we are based in Catalonia (Girona) the cheapest to rent is €350 https://www.idealista.com/en/alquile...or=precios-asc
Maybe because of depopulation you will find cheap rentals in parts Lleida but then it wouldn't be classed as desirable.

Re: Where is everyone?
 

Yes I rent as well As own. And I just had a quick look on idialista then and seen flats for as little as €250 a month. And people tell me that catalonia is one of the more expensive provinces as well.

Re: Where is everyone?
 

Certainly not 4 beds and you need to read the contract first. Some are also scams and with others prices might be confusing.

https://www.idealista.com/en/inmueble/93256216/
PROMOTION: 1 MONTH RENT FREE if you reserve before 31 AUGUST. And also, no agency fees! . Rent and expenses for the first year: €360/month. Rent: €357.97/month. Expenses and property tax are charged separately (€37.61/month). Discount of 94.60% on expenses for the first year, 62.44% for the second year and 31.22% for the third year.

Here the bedroom is even the kitchen: https://www.idealista.com/en/inmueble/94742334/

Re: Where is everyone?
 

I had a go at fishing when I was about 6 years old and got bored in 10 minutes. I like a bit more excitement in my life and pay just a bit more rental for the pleasure.

Steve

Re: Where is everyone?
 

You can get 4 bedrooms and multiple toilets with a separate kitchen and dining area for €350 a month. Then just pay for your electric and gas bottles. Don’t have to for anything else. And you know that girona is pretty much the most expensive part of catalonia which in turn is the most expensive part of mainland Spain. So you could probably get cheaper down south. Yes if you move closer to the sea might be more expensive but you can always jump in the car and drive to the coast. And with the massive lack of tourists now you can pick a right bargain hotel pretty much anywhere in Spain at the moment.

Re: Where is everyone?
 

As this thread has become a petty squabble about the cost of housing and no longer fits the title I am closing it.

Rosemary