tommy.irene

Many Catholic priests take a flexible approach to celibacy, tolerated by church leaders, and some believe sex with children or men does not count, a former Melbourne priest said on Wednesday.
''An enormous number of priests struggle with celibacy,'' Philip O'Donnell told the state inquiry into how the churches handle child sex abuse.
''There's a tolerance for imperfection in celibacy, and that may have led to a lessening of outrage at sex with children.''
He said he had no training about celibacy in the seminary and that many priests were ill-equipped. ''Chosen celibacy is a gift, but mandatory celibacy is for many priests a millstone,'' he said.
Advertisement
Mr O'Donnell declined to speculate on what percentage of Catholic priests, who must vow to be celibate, were sexually active, but another Melbourne priest has separately suggested it is about half.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/ch...#ixzz2J9op7uHy

tommy.irene

It seems its ok to have sex with children and men..

Domino

I remember when in Singapore, certain members of a ships crew, probably over a number of pints of Tiger beer, decided that as having paid for sex with a woman would be adultery that they would go out and find a brothel that would provide males instead - this wouldn't break their marriage vows

one (or more) caught an STD and when visiting the medics let slip exactly what happened, who, with whom etc. The ship was delayed sailing for 2 weeks as a number concerned required full replacement from the UK. The whole lot were tried at courts martial and returned to the UK. It was always believed that a number of the males were below the age of consent.

the forces also have no celibacy training for guys (and gals) whilst on active duty, relying on them to "use common sense".

the celibacy for RC priests in part stems from a few hundred years ago when it was deemed that any child of such a relationship could have rights to the church's money and wealth.
hence the reason for the large payoffs that have been made in the past.

many people know about these priests but "for the good of the church" say nothing, do nothing. that has to stop, it debases the individuals concerned and the church.

`

dunmovin

Do Catholic priests and sailors make good babysitters?

Okay, joking aside.....Tell any man OR woman that they can't do what comes naturually to any other creature on the planet,(try explaining to a 300lb tiger with an erection,that God said he should be celebate.... you have 2 milliseconds to work out your survival chance)it's just not going to happen.

Some twit came up with the celebacy thing for priests...didn't think it through and look what happened.

Pocaloca

Domino

it appears to be something that came about after Jesus, there are references to disciples wives in the Bible but the Catholic Church took to it fairly early on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerical_celibacy

Celibacy has played little role in Judaism, in which marriage and raising children are understood as holy obligations.
Muslims believe that marriage is a gift from God or a kind of service to God. Islamic celibacy, where it exists, is a matter of personal spiritual advancement or enthusiasm rather than sacerdotal purity or institutional control.

But even in the Roman Catholic church there were popes not celibate, such as with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Borgia
a Spanish dynasty of the 14th, 15th and 16th centuries

So it may not have been a priest that came up with the idea all those years ago.
In modern terms, to expect celibacy would be an infringement of an individual's Human Rights and would have the Fluffy Bunnies running around protesting.

`

Retired in Euskadi

The twit was pope Gregory VII who suggested celibacy, amongst many other things, in 1077. It was Innocent III in 1215 who convened the 4th Lateran Council (big pow wow) & established Catholic 'Laws' (many of which survive today), including the ruling that priests must be celibate.
It's not at all biblical & hopefully one day this rule will be repealed. Unfortunately change in Catholic church law is slower than glacier speed

jimenato

The RCs just seem to make stuff up. How about Purgatory (where the 'stain of original sin' is burned off your soul) and Limbo where you go if you're not baptised? I learned about those at the Catholic junior school I went to. Scared the pants off me. Also the story of the young girl who didn't make a full confession whose burnt handprints found on her quilt in the morning were the only thing left of her. I was CofE so didn't do confession - what was I supposed to make of it all?

Pocaloca

You make it sound as if protecting human rights is somehow bad. I can't quite get my head round that.

Nobody is forced to take celibacy vows, these men and women know what they are letting themselves in for.

Domino

HEY don't have a go at me ! !
Read the original post, where it is suggested that celibacy is a millstone.

Many people no longer know and understand what they are letting themselves in for. Or expect a little bit of "leniency". Or a bit of forgiveness for not being "perfect".
You cannot rely on the wind blowing in one direction for all of your life.
Surely that is part of the commitment and to fight and overcome the temptations of life - not to say "well it is my human right" and to do it with small children because that "doesn't count".


If you cannot do the job - for whatever reason - then you give up the job.
The world should not castigate you for having the courage of your convictions or giving up if you are weak - but will if you hide behind the cloth and give mealy mouthed reasons of human rights and weakness.

The world is looking for people with the courage of their convictions, people who walk the straight and narrow path without deviating.

`

Pocaloca

Oh I agree with you completely on the celibacy thing. It's just the human rights/fluffy bunnies thing you have that confuses me. I know there are some crazy situations where human rights legislation is abused but hey, let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater. We never know when we might need those rights for ourselves or our loved ones, and be glad of a bunny or two to stick up for us!

Domino

sorry, but you have lost the plot
the fluffy bunnies don't even understand that your or I exist.
They are only interested in the fact that you and I as white anglo-saxon christians do not give 2 hoots for the immigrants that enter the UK and make the country greater than its ever been, want to allow them to have all sorts of access to benefits and rights that over-ride the rights of the indigenous population.
Yes we know of people abusing benefits etc. But there appear (to my biased, racist, way of thinking that there are more people who have no UK history abusing the system than those who have at least been here a few decades, letalone a few centuries.
We have "quotas" to employ "ethnic minorities" in jobs - this is negative discrimination. The Police cannot get enough EM's but cannot understand why. The Armed Forces the same. So why are willing and eager recruits being turned down because they are not EM's ??

OK, call me racist - which I am not.
OK, call me a member of BNP et al - which I am not.
All I want to see is that, having spent over 20 years in foreign countries, we treat their people the same way as they treat our people.
And then see the fluffy bunnies run for cover, because in many countries we deem to be "friendly" our people are treated like dirt, have little or no rights - unless they have a diplomatic pass.

sorry rant over, but i think you asked for it.


as to celibacy - it is known by all before they even enter the seminary as a requirement, that is why some enter other religions rather than catholicism, they have active lives, girlfriends, wives etc.
Ignorance of the terms is no defence.

rgds

TiffinTime

"It's just the human rights/fluffy bunnies thing you have that confuses me. I know there are some crazy situations where human rights legislation is abused but hey, let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater. We never know when we might need those rights for ourselves or our loved ones, and be glad of a bunny or two to stick up for us!"

It's probably not a good way to start on the Spanish site, but I rather agree with your comment quoted above!

I have an apartment in Spain, in the old town in Altea with a wondrous view, and the plan is to move over there permanently within the next three or four years, selling the apartment and buying somewhere close by in the campo, but keeping a bolt hole in the UK.

We bought in Altea primarily because my aged mother, now deceased, lived there for 35+ years and it seemed a good idea to be close at hand when necessary, whilst not actually staying with her - for both our sakes.

But I don't buy into the Daily Mail scare story demographic, which so many expats I've met in Spain seem consumed by. I recall three British lads from a company I found in the Costa Blanca News, working for a supposedly reputable company, came to install my satellite dish, none of them more than 25, whining on about immigrants to the UK. Not one of them, it turned out, was legally supposed to be working in Spain.

Hypocrisy or what! No. Just ignorance.

Sorry, but it's the one thing that scares me about moving permanently to Spain - the Brits!

agoreira

Yes, agree, but you can hardly move to somewhere like Altea and moan about Brits. Loads of other places you could move in Spain and avoid them completely.

Retired in Euskadi

Such as here in the Basque country! But rather keep it like that! No offence whatsoever, but the very few times we even see an English car registration plate it's almost a sense of curiosity, plus "what are they doing here!!!" Terrible attitude!