poshnbucks

Benefits claimants will be forced to pick up litter and clean off graffiti under radical U.S.-style welfare reforms designed to get millions back into work and returned back to the UK from Spain.

Under a new White Paper he presented before Parliament today, lone parents' benefits, incapacity benefits, housing benefit and job seeker's allowance will be overhauled.

Anyone on the dole for more than two years will be made to take full-time community jobs in return for their weekly handout, signing in each day. Well I wonder how many will be hopping on a cheapo flight to sign on.......... Many is my guess and about time these leaches were found out and returned to do their community service. Hear Hear Hear Hear Still at your UK address eh..........Get ur coat.

Good Job Gordy Saved the World.......Ehhhhhh Sorry I meant the UK.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...cue-banks.html

Come on rugbymatt make em have it....... Get ur feeding bag on....Their bleedin

Those people who have come to Spain and are fully entitled to incapacity benefit should continue to obtain same this is not aimed at you.But they are changing the system to stop the marathon runners and fell walkers......But who tell the DSS they can not walk unaided due to a bad back claiming.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...obs-there.html

me me

About time the system was sorted out. It is a total shambles at the moment.

Lionda

I don't know how the British Government can afford to pay out so much, I know a couple on £2000 a month and they seem fitter than me

Econ

I think it might actually remain so, from what I hear you can't get the police to come out to a robbery or attempted assault in many areas so what's the chance of them being interested in dole cheats?

The police are not to blame on this of course, unfortunately it is lack of funds from the government and so lack of man power.

Veleta

I like the way the Spanish dole system works....seems much fairer to me.

If you have NEVER worked, you get NOTHING. Quite right too.

If you have worked and lose your job through no fault of your own, you get 75% of your previous salary (not bad). For every four years that you have worked, you get one year of dole money. Then it stops dead and you get NOTHING.

Knowing that your dole money won't go on forever I think would give people an incentive to actually get a job, rather than fake attempting to get a job just so that they can continue claiming for the rest of their lives.

Econ

The Spanish employment system is archaic! You will find that there are people 'many people in the south' who work to get a years feet up, after that they go back to work, when they have built up a years dole then they put their feet up again. This practice gets Spanish companies backs up because they want people who are interested in their work but many staff are only interested in one thing. I think you will find this is a main reason why there seems to be so much poor staff in shops here, it is not worth the company training people if they are not interested in the job.

The unfortunate thing about the Spanish employment system is it promotes deceite, workers in * many * Spanish companies get paid a very low wage but it is backed up with back handers so the company does not have to pay so much in taxes. It also promotes full 'cash in hand' payments rather than the company actually legally giving people a job because the Spanish system makes it very expensive for companies to employ people, yet they leave the doors wide open for large companies to not declare their true turnover and so have this black money for cash payments! I think the system needs a total overhaul to bring it into the day and age we are in.

Veleta

And therein lies the difference between Spain and the UK. In Spain they actually go back to work as it isn't possible (or a darn site harder) to make a career out of claiming benefits.

Econ

I think you are misunderstanding the problem.

Veleta

No, not really. I didn't say that the Spanish system for dole was perfect, I said that I find it an improvement on the UK system. I approve of the fact that in Spain it is much more difficult to be a career benefit claimer, and that you cannot leave school at 18 and just "sign up" for your free money. (or maybe you can't do this in the Uk either now....I've been gone a while so I'm a bit out of touch).

Econ

I think you need to look beyond the cheat and look at the problems they cause, imagine someone who has to go back to work every 4 years when they have no interest in working, the situation the employers client is in with this member of staff and the situation the employer is in having someone who has no interest and is only there for the money. I have always put the ignorant attitude of * some * staff in the hostaleria industry in the south of Spain down to this... rightly or wrongly. An employee like this knows he has to work only for 4 years to get a years 'or 2' holiday as such, then back to another 4 years of being an employee with an attitude.
I think someone who knows they have to work if forced into a job will at least try and find something that interests them while someone who knows they can get a years holiday every 4 years will do whatever it takes to get that 'so called' holiday.

In my mind both the UK and the Spanish systems need looking at as neither is perfect, if for different reasons but the Spanish systems problems are deeper than the above example, companies scare away from employing people on contracts. OK, companies use contracts because they have to but these are only used as a process that cannot be avoided in many cases, hence the brown envelopes, the reason is the Spanish labour laws. Now with this there are many people struggling to live in a job without a contract... no unemployment or pension, the whole system encourages breaking the law, employing someone in Spain is frighteningly expensive to do.
The fact that large companies who deal with cash payments have a lot of black money to loose (another problem) so pay their staff lower wages and then back it up with a brown envelope. This means that the company does not pay the tax they are supposed to nor the social security relative to the * actual * pay of the employee..... millions 'if not billions' every year that has to come from somewhere!

Veleta

But nobody is forcing these companies to give the jobs to the layabouts. If a company chooses to employ someone with a dubious attitude and a not very complete CV history and then pay them very little money, I don't have much sympathy for them if they don't get the quality of staff they desire.

In any case, I have never heard of this 4 years of work, to get one year "holiday" scam. And if your intention is to be career benefit claimer, having to actually work for 4 years must be a real bummer!

rugbymatt

Filthy dole bludgers the lot of them, I hope they all suffer in the long run....



Econ, just to raise a point you made, they will stamp down on this, they have to, when it comes to money this pitiful bunch of thieves we call Labour will stop at nothing to get as much back from the people as they can...



Just look at the whole fiasco surrounding the VAT cut of 2.5%, by way of compensating for the loss of revenue from fuel sales so they raise the duty to be paid on petrol and diesel by....... wait for it......... 2.5%!!!!!!!!!!!

Econ

I really don't understand why they thought cutting VAT by 2.5% was going to help, I think it will do more harm than good personally. Most shops are giving x% off so 2.5% of the net can't make a lot of difference to sales in reality... unless I am missing something.

I didn't know they upped duty on petrol and diesel, it won't stop them upping IVA to 20% telling us it is to compensate for the cut to 15% now. :curse:

The thing is the 2.5% cut might help some (probably very few) people but does it make a lot of difference to the buying power of most of the people? They are actually giving a 2.5% cut in VAT to many people who probably would still have bought anyway, the mega rich buying items at 100,000, 200,000, 300,000 grand and more (big cars, boats, yachts, private jets etc.). These people would probably still have bought these items, yet the non elected prime minister is giving them 2.5% off when it wasn't needed there, we are not talking a VAT on a £5 or £20 item here. Maybe even people (the rich) that where thinking of buying these items in the future (not now) may buy them now to save 2.5% and make the loss even greater to the government. Am I am missing something? I know that is a stimulation in sales but it will be a loss in the recovery which will just be as bad because those large sales have gone and the people who are suffering most will be the ones having to pay back this cut to the rich... and to them, i.e. the working class. My cut on this is he panicked and thought this would make it look like he was doing something, I really don't think they think out the consequences of their actions and are creating bigger problems than the ones they are trying to fix.

But then I am not an economist/accountant so maybe...

Thydney

It's funny had they put VAT up 2.5% there would have been hell to pay but when it's taken off it's no big deal

rugbymatt

Econ, couldn't agree more with your confusion about where or haw this is going to help, some have said that it will stimulate borrowing again, but its the damned borrowing that has put us in this situation, while others, including a good friend who works in Whitehall say that this is a show action for the countless sheep GB thinks will see this as assertive action, and a mine laid because they know the next election is lost.

In fact the same friend has told me that there are already white papers being drawn up detailing how they can win back the election after the next one, so reconciled they are that they are going to lose this one.


Someone put it perfectly the other day on TV when stopped in the street and asked if it would help them, their reply was....

"My energy bills have gone up by over a third in the last year alone, fuel for the car is now almost a third higher from last year, food is, in some cases twice as much and all the government can offer me in return is £2.50 in return for every £100 I spend.........."