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Welcome to the future.

Welcome to the future.

Old Feb 15th 2013, 6:05 pm
  #256  
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Originally Posted by jackytoo
Perhaps there should be good benefits for 2 children and nil for anymore.
I agree wholeheartedly. If benefits continue to be paid for every additional child, how can being in work ever pay more than being on benefits for someone who has more than two children? Especially when housing costs for a large family are taken into account, and childcare which would have to be paid for if the parent(s) were working.

Before I left the UK I remember reading in our local paper about a couple who had been on benefits for many years, and had 14, yes 14, children (and before anyone makes any assumptions, they were not immigrants). The husband quite openly said that he could not take any job that paid less than £500 per week, or the family would be worse off. As neither of the parents had a single qualification between them, that is never going to happen.

People who are working have to think carefully about whether they can afford to have another child, because they won't get a pay rise if they do (although they may get Child Benefit, which isn't a fortune). How can it ever be right for people on benefits to continue having child after child, when those who are paying tax to support them may be having to limit their own families more than they would like?

I've been a socialist all my life, but as far as I'm concerned, people should realise that they have an obligation to behave responsibly.
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Old Feb 15th 2013, 6:23 pm
  #257  
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Originally Posted by jackytoo
Perhaps there should be good benefits for 2 children and nil for anymore.
Why is the government providing benefits for children? surely this should be done if at all by tax concessions. People would then first have to work to gain.

Is anyone following the Derby fire case with the Phillpot's?
Take a look at the benefits these scroungers have been receiving, and it would appear they set the fire partially in an attempt to increase their gains, killing six of the children in the process

http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/Ph...#axzz2KnLjtjMZ
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Old Feb 15th 2013, 6:31 pm
  #258  
 
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Originally Posted by Pocaloca
Not with people like Decon.YA around, no chance!

Think I'll stick with dogs and cats ...
remember what I said

All Actions Result in a Consequence


you have to stick by your decisions through thick and thin. OK so you "decide" or "plan" to have 10 children - but you know full well that here in Spain your decision/plan could cause jeapardy to some or all of those kids.
You have to take responsibility for your decision.
Why should you palm that responsibility on to someone else to ensure those children are clothed and fed.
stick with your dogs and cats by all means - you gain a better insight into life that way than you do by just having children.
When we had 3 dogs I called them "the kids". They all had tons of dog sensibility but were really the equal to a 7 year old child - at an age where they were too old for you to take total responsibility but not old enough to allow them to do what they wanted.

you have to have a plan, you have to have a plan B, C, D, E etc. Nothing goes the way you want it. You get up in the morning and someone like Domino has made an outrageous comment on BE Spain and that take an hour or so out of your day. your plans have gone down the swannee.
so what is plan b??

But please understand that when you are dealing with those dogs the look in their eyes when they have been deserted, dumped, thrown out. They don't understand why, they can't ask.
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Old Feb 15th 2013, 8:33 pm
  #259  
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Originally Posted by Fredbargate
Why is the government providing benefits for children? surely this should be done if at all by tax concessions. People would then first have to work to gain.

Is anyone following the Derby fire case with the Phillpot's?
Take a look at the benefits these scroungers have been receiving, and it would appear they set the fire partially in an attempt to increase their gains, killing six of the children in the process

http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/Ph...#axzz2KnLjtjMZ
Jeezuz! what a dysfunctional family. Perhaps family is the wrong word. It beggars belief that people live like that. Animals have better morals and family structure than those people
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Old Feb 15th 2013, 10:39 pm
  #260  
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Originally Posted by jackytoo
Perhaps there should be good benefits for 2 children and nil for anymore.

My niece was promoted last year which put her in the 40% tax bracket and she loses her family allowance. Not much incentive for more responsibilty is there
If it was up to me that is the first benefit that would be scrapped for everyone!

If there was no financial help there wouldn't be so many very young single mums, the ones who make a lifetime career out of claiming benefits because they don't see why they should support themselves, their brats become a free meal ticket.
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Old Feb 16th 2013, 7:46 am
  #261  
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Originally Posted by megmet
If it was up to me that is the first benefit that would be scrapped for everyone!

If there was no financial help there wouldn't be so many very young single mums, the ones who make a lifetime career out of claiming benefits because they don't see why they should support themselves, their brats become a free meal ticket.
You think the family allowance is enough to bring up a child these days?
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Old Feb 16th 2013, 7:58 am
  #262  
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy
You think the family allowance is enough to bring up a child these days?
No, but unfortunately it is perceived by some as the key to open the door for other benefits and a non working lifestyle
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Old Feb 16th 2013, 8:07 am
  #263  
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Originally Posted by Fredbargate
No, but unfortunately it is perceived by some as the key to open the door for other benefits and a non working lifestyle
Perceived incorrectly I guess then, as child benefit of course is collected by most parents in the land, working and non working

We stuck ours in a bank account and gave it to our daughter when she came of age ... the child benefited
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Old Feb 16th 2013, 8:12 am
  #264  
 
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Originally Posted by megmet
If it was up to me that is the first benefit that would be scrapped for everyone!

If there was no financial help there wouldn't be so many very young single mums, the ones who make a lifetime career out of claiming benefits because they don't see why they should support themselves, their brats become a free meal ticket.
and definitely should be stopped for
a) all those from the UK who move to another EU country
b) anyone going to the UK who doesn't have the child with them

so many people forget that getting CB is the key to the door to many other things, and it also guarantees payment of "the stamp" for future pension.

as I said earlier, you should be responsible for your actions, in all ways and not rely on the state to dig you out of the shit.
this has only come about since WWII and has progressively got worse and worse to the point where it isn't worth getting out of bed.
OOPPSS another sprog on the way
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Old Feb 16th 2013, 8:18 am
  #265  
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Originally Posted by Domino
and definitely should be stopped for
a) all those from the UK who move to another EU country
b) anyone going to the UK who doesn't have the child with them

so many people forget that getting CB is the key to the door to many other things, and it also guarantees payment of "the stamp" for future pension.

as I said earlier, you should be responsible for your actions, in all ways and not rely on the state to dig you out of the shit.
this has only come about since WWII and has progressively got worse and worse to the point where it isn't worth getting out of bed.
OOPPSS another sprog on the way
Not ALL. For instance if a mother and child are resident in Spain yet the father works in the UK and pays tax and NI there and comes here at weekends for instance
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Old Feb 16th 2013, 8:30 am
  #266  
 
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy
Not ALL. For instance if a mother and child are resident in Spain yet the father works in the UK and pays tax and NI there and comes here at weekends for instance
then they move from a) to b)
that is why we are paying out £millions to Poles and others who come over to work and they get CB for children that have never left the home country.
they should be eligible for any local credit/benefit from the country they are living in not the country they are working in. Unless the child is with them.

It is your scenario that opens it up to all and sundry as interpreted within the liberal reading of benefits for all by the EU.

and remember that CB is Tax Free irrespective of whether the adult in receipt is earning above or below the tax threshold - subject to the High Income Charge.
also Child Benefit doesn’t count as income for other benefits.
http://https://www.gov.uk/child-bene...er-information

more worrying - how can anyone be sure the CB is actually of benefit to the child concerned when it is paid to someone who has no direct control over the child in another country.

but credit to you for saving for your daughter's future.

`
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Old Feb 16th 2013, 8:37 am
  #267  
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Originally Posted by Domino
then they move from a) to b)
that is why we are paying out £millions to Poles and others who come over to work and they get CB for children that have never left the home country.
they should be eligible for any local credit/benefit from the country they are living in not the country they are working in. Unless the child is with them.

It is your scenario that opens it up to all and sundry as interpreted within the liberal reading of benefits for all by the EU.

and remember that CB is Tax Free irrespective of whether the adult in receipt is earning above or below the tax threshold - subject to the High Income Charge.
also Child Benefit doesn’t count as income for other benefits.
http://https://www.gov.uk/child-bene...er-information

more worrying - how can anyone be sure the CB is actually of benefit to the child concerned when it is paid to someone who has no direct control over the child in another country.

but credit to you for saving for your daughter's future.

`
Its how far you take it isnt it!

One person is paying into the UK system, living there and gets child benefit for his child in Spain and you say they shouldnt

I paid all my life into the system and moved abroad so I no longer contribute there regarding tax or normal day to day stuff .... my pension is a benefit .. should I get it?
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Old Feb 16th 2013, 8:54 am
  #268  
 
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy
Its how far you take it isnt it!

One person is paying into the UK system, living there and gets child benefit for his child in Spain and you say they shouldnt

I paid all my life into the system and moved abroad so I no longer contribute there regarding tax or normal day to day stuff .... my pension is a benefit .. should I get it?
you know that is not what is being said or meant....
and as I said, that scenario is what has opened up payments to all and sundry.

perhaps you would like to see Marriage Allowance re-introduced as a tax free benefit as well, it would re-invigorate marriage. This could also be paid for spouses living in Spain, Poland, Lithuania, Italy etc, and remember the now broadened scope of "spouse".

You paid all your life into the system to get the pension where you should want to live out your remaining years is up to you, be it Spain, Seychelles or Easter Island.
just not all will give you the WFP that comes in very handy Harry during these cold days and nights in sunny Spain.
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Old Feb 16th 2013, 2:54 pm
  #269  
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Originally Posted by decon.YA
Honestly, did you really expect a sensible answer to you question about culling children?
Well I did give you a chance to say you weren't serious, but you repeated that you were!

My question, in response to your comment "if you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em", was what you would do in cases where your circumstances changed unpredictably and you were no longer in a position to "feed 'em". It could happen to anyone! You still haven't answered that.
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Old Feb 16th 2013, 2:59 pm
  #270  
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy
Perceived incorrectly I guess then, as child benefit of course is collected by most parents in the land, working and non working

We stuck ours in a bank account and gave it to our daughter when she came of age ... the child benefited
Sounds very sensible.

Could you tell me, out of interest - before the recent cap, was child benefit included in your taxable income?

In which case it would seem a bit pointless to cap it and introduce all the extra administration associated with means-testing.
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