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It will be interesting to see if anything comes of this

UK on verge of deal with EU to let Britons use European passport e-gates | Air transport | The Guardian

I flew back into Málaga airport late on Monday night and there was no queue to speak of at Passport Control, but only one non-EU and one EU desk staffed. As luck would have it I was called forward to the EU desk when my turn came.

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I agree with the idea of resident TIE holders benefitting from the use of e-gates but not ordinary UK tourists. If they make an exception for one group of non EU citizens, who already enjoy visa free entry to the Schengen area, then logically, and fairly, it should also extend to the other 64 visa free non EU nations.

https://schengeninsuranceinfo.com/sc...empt-countries

I'm absolutely not a Brexiteer but UK needs to come to terms with what they voted for - or hold another referendum!

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I tend to agree with you, but what I'm finding confusing is that when EES/ETIAS finally come into operation, won't UK citizens as well as those from other visa-free countries be using the new e-gates anyway, whilst those of us who are resident TIE holders will have to have our passports inspected manually as we'll be exempt?

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We have flown twice in the past couple of weeks and both times at Alicante they were letting UK passport holders use either lane.
I showed my TIE to the lady at the line and she sent us down the EU lane.
I still had to scan my passport and then go to a desk, so I cant actually see how the Eu lane is any faster as the same process occured with the French couple infront of us.
The only difference I could see was EU (and Us0 didnt get more than a glance at our documents (I dont show my passport just the TIE)

And as said, even with the EES and the ETIAS we will still have to be manually checked as we wont have the required visa waiver attached to the passport scan.

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Scanned by the machines (there are loads all wrapped up at Alicante waiting to be put in)
I dont show my passport in or out to the border control just the TIE.

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Why shouldn't all visa free nations use e-gates ? One of the benefits of e-gates in efficient countries is to speed up the immigration process and speed up the throughput at the port, rather than having queues of passengers at manual booths. It sounds dramatic saying 64 visa free nationalities but in reality only a very small number of those nations have any impact on Spanish ports. By far the largest is UK. It's nothing to do with Brexit and the UK not accepting what they voted for, it should be about effiency for the paying passengers arriving in Spanish airports whatever their nationality. Sadly the EU cant seem to get their act to gather in implimenting an efficient system, which is both long delayed and overspent.

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The border control officer I got on my way out of Málaga looked as though it was his first day on the job. I handed over my TIE first and he looked at it, perplexed and had to ask his older colleague at the next desk about it - who pointed out the wording about the Withdrawal Agreement and explained that he shouldn't stamp my passport. You do wonder about the quality of the training these officers get.

There are lots of the new machines standing idle at Málaga too.

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Those machines have been there stood idle for a long time now

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Rules for residents are easy to remember:

• You may be directed to the EU lane... Or the non-EU lane.
• And your passport may not be stamped... Or it may be stamped.

;)

Probably waiting for ETIAS which has been postponed again until 2026...

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I think they will all potentially be using e-gates but the issue here is a proposal that UK passport holders use specifically EU passport e-gates.

It makes sense to have a separate EU passport lane to maintain faster throughput for those with EU membership privileges. The gates will presumably - given this proposal - have the same capabilities, but the checking process against the EES for non-EU passports will add a marginal overhead on processing time.

But if the EU is willing to countenance that amongst a package of other issues in an agreement which has some advantages for both parties, that ought to be seen as a positive.

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Exactly. My passport gets randomly stamped at times but I don't care about the stamps or whether the entrance/exit ones match up or not.

Though you'd think that someone who is trained to do this professionally would never get this wrong. It can't be that difficult to remember: "Resident = no stamp." :)

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Yes thats what I presumed

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I dont know how the EU will eventually implement things but in my experience travelling extensively I have typically found that e-gates are e-gates and anyone who is entitled to use them uses the same gates. Example when arriving at Heathrow UK passport holders use the same e-gates as every other nationality and the same at most airports I have travelled through. Typically you dont see home country e-gates and separate e-gates for others.

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You mean they've been haggling for months over a concession that isn't a concession at all?

I wonder how skilled negotiators managed to get it so wrong :unsure:

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Ive not suggested anyone has got it wrong, they have been haggling over the concession to use e-gates, you seemed to be implying that there are (or will be) different types of e-gates (EU and Non EU). All I was saying is that typically e-gates are e-gates, so the current EU only e-gates would become usable by anyone who qualifies, but perhaps in Spain they will do things differently, time will tell.

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After 2 years of not flying, I recently flew from Alicante to Luton and back. It all went very smoothly, and the machines read my passport successfully (the first time ever for me!). And I used QR codes for both flights - again no problems.

I noticed they don't seem to check you when you actually step onto the plane any more.

I preferred the Easyjet flight as they still had a magazine to pass the half-hour—nothing on Ryanair.

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e-gates have been used for Brits arriving to Spain and Portugal but they still had to go through to a second area for a passport stamp... some reports seemed to suggest the second area and stamp wouldn't be necessary. If the British press understood right (if).

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If all goes to plan then stamping will become a thing of the past (for those who have the EES and ETIAS) BUT for us the scanners will throw up an error as they wont find either electronically attached to our passports.
And I dont think the TIE can be scanned. (could be wrong, though)
Thats the bit I am waiting for.

We returned from Gatwick to Alicante on Saturday night (23:30) and half of the scanners were down and there was only one rather bored and annoyed border guard stamping away.
He actually smiled when I showed the TIE and just waved me on, didnt even bother to look at it..

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They only check as you are boarding at the gate, not once you're actually stepping onto the plane.

Easyjet recently cancelled my flight as they had a tyre issue that grounded the plane overnight. They eventually put us on a different flight with a bus then taking pax to their original destination, so we arrived at 3am instead of 8pm. Filed for compensation, gladly they didn't try to give me the run-around but acknowledged the claim and paid out shortly afterwards. Nice, big amount too as there were 4 of us. :)

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Let's hope thats the case ! ..... and everyone will go through a true e-gate

I travel frequently in and out of the UAE, the throughput of passengers is mind-blowing and rarely have any wait entering or leaving, Abu Dhabi has taken it one step further with a virtually paperless system (including no passport)


Aside of the paperless aspect, their immigration system knows instantly who should and shouldn't be in the country, something the UK or EU will never achieve :)

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Re UK nationals using EU e-gates, this is point 16 in the EU-UK common understanding agreement which you can download:

16. The United Kingdom and the European Commission will continue their exchanges on smooth
border management for the benefit of their citizens, including the potential use of eGates
where appropriate. They note that European Union citizens can use eGates in the United
Kingdom and that there will be no legal barriers to eGate use for British Nationals traveling to
and from European Union Member States after the introduction of the European Union
Entry/Exit System.

So it's a definite step in the right direction from UK nationals who are non-EU residents but you will have to wait until EES is online and I would assume you will have to go to the EES (and eventually ETIAS) scanners first which have already been installed just before the passport control booths and then on to the EU e-gates after that.

Let's hope today's agreement is a serious move closer to the EU.

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So really the EU is confirming that ETIAS will work how it's supposed to work, when it is introduced.

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ETIAS is supposed to store historical data which currently isn't the case, right?

Because at present the Schengen system knows exactly who's inside and how/when they entered, but it doesn't store historical travel data so it doesn't track the overall limit of days allowed.

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As I suspected, this "deal" gives UK citizens nothing that wouldn't have happened anyway once EES goes live.

Britons will not be able to use e-gates in EU until October at earliest | Brexit | The Guardian

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Im certainly not holding my breath for October 😁

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Yep, once the EES is fully live everyone will be able to use the egates.
Only us poor immigrants who have UK passports (but not NLV holders) will still have to go to the desks. (unless there is some unicorn magic that will put us on the system)
The EES in the Uk already works as my son in law visited the with my daughter a month ago and he went through the same gate as everyone else. Didint get his passport stamped (he was upset as it was the first time a member of his family has been back to the Uk for a couple of hundred years).

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ETIAS has supposed to be going online for a while now. It’s about 5 years late as it is

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From what I have read, it looks like non-EU nationals will be channelled off to the EES/ETIAS scanners immediately on arrival and before passport control. They will have to register initially which will take time but after that the EES procedure will be faster and it will just be a case of checking details and making sure they are keeping to the 90 day travel rules for third country nationals.

The key point here which really should have been made much clearer is that even after the initial EES registration process, UK nationals will always be separated off to the EES scanners before passport control on both entry and exit every time they visit a Schengen state. They can then go to the EU e-gates instead of queuing for passport stamping but it's not a case of simply going back to how things were pre-Brexit, they will always have to go through the extra EES/ETIAS process and there will probably always be long queues at busy times.

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I’ve never experienced long Que times in Spanish airports. Before and after Brexit

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Will be interesting to see how this gets rolled out in practice and if it means passengers passing through 2 sets of e-gates that will be mighty inefficient, even the UK have managed to roll their systems into a single e-gate (as have most (not all) other countries that operate e-visas / e-gates).

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I stand to be corrected but from what I have read, the UK ETA is similar to ETIAS which I now understand will operate in a similar way to ETA and will be compatible with EU e-gates as in the UK.

The EES system is completely different and the UK doesn't have an equivalent. Obviously EES is covering a very wide area ie the Schengen zone and it will check for people overstaying prior to passport control and also calculate how much time they have left in their 90 day allowance. Once these checks have been completed, they can then proceed to the EU e-gates.

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Im not suggesting what you say is wrong, in fact having seen Spanish airports with kiosks of various shapes sitting around waiting to be installed you are probably correct, its just that other countries manage to roll multiple systems into single e-gates - residency, visitors on e-visa, vistors on long term visas, equivalent of EES etc all processed through single gates. Typically you have a one time visit to an immigration desk on first visit to scan your biometrics after that you stroll through e-gates.

I guess also in the EU the exact setup will depend on the infrastructure of each airport, as some dont have a huge amount of space and some dont have e-gates at all.

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I take your point but I don't want to be stuck behind someone at an e-gate who is struggling with the EES system or trying to cheat the system by overstaying. It's better for them to be rejected prior to passport control otherwise it will cause delays for everyone else.

It seems sensible to hive the EES system off separately and before passport control.

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I've been to lots of airports where there are massive amounts of booths for manual passport control... but I've never seen more than 20-25% of them active at once, even with massive lines. It's like with these large supermarkets (hypermarkets)... so many checkout counters yet ALWAYS so many of them closed, even during the busiest times of the year.

They'll find the space, one way or another... :) Though I'd hate to be around if the system ever fails and suddenly EVERYTHING needs to go old-school, via human hands...

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Time will tell :) but having travelled through dozens of airports with e-gates typically anyone who doesn't meet the criteria gets a big red X on the screen and funnelled off to an immigration officer without anyone else being inconvenienced, usually the only delays are caused by people putting their passport in the wrong way or not looking at the camera etc :) the length of the delay usually depends on how many 'guides' the airport employ to smooth the process.

Whatever happens it can only be a good thing (I hope)

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Yes .... either manual booths are closed and frequently numerous e-gates closed. It always amazes me arriving at Heathrow when it seems like a shock to them that 3 aircraft arrive with 300 passengers on each as if they (immigration) weren't expecting them.

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Exactly! I've seen some really bad lines at Heathrow though luckily not during recent travels. But it amazes me when you see those closed booths/gates with massive amounts of passengers piling in... as if those planes suddenly landed out of nowhere and everything was completely unexpected. :)