Vaccination

Old Jul 22nd 2011, 10:17 pm
  #121  
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Default Re: Vaccination

Originally Posted by bil
Chickenpox and shingles are the same virus. I think they show similarities with the herpes virus, in that they retreat into the nervous system, where the immune system can't reach them. I don't know what triggers the re eruption of the chicken pox virus, but I do know it's very nasty. Perhaps the pain you get with it is because it erupts within the nerves?
I had shingles last year. Woke up one morning and it was in a line across my midriff to around my back. Spoke to Doctor on phone and said was it necessary to visit as I felt ok. He said come in as now they give anti-viral drugs and it prevents long term pain through nerve damage. I never had pain but the rash did get worse and took over two weeks to go. Never had pain although I do get an itch sometimes where the rash was on my back.
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Old Jul 22nd 2011, 10:18 pm
  #122  
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Default Re: Vaccination

Originally Posted by The Oddities
When I was young I was given the smallpox vaccine and nearly died of vaccine fever. As soon as I recovered they injected me again because they said that the injection had not worked.

Rosemary
Is there actually a condition called vaccine fever?
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Old Jul 22nd 2011, 10:22 pm
  #123  
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Default Re: Vaccination

Originally Posted by bil
In a sense, yes. I keep asking but it looks like the well is dry.

Onion is the business. I have been trying it for a decade or more, and it never ceases to amaze me. Last year I gave myself a very nasty burn on my left palm, picking up a piece of steel I had been welding and forgetting which end was hot.

Normally that would have developed into a large blister, that would eventually have burst exposing delicate skin which would have dried, split and got infected, ensuring me a painful hand long after the burn had faded.

I gave it the onion treatment, and because it was so bad, I grated onion, put on a plastic glove and packed the palm area with the pulp. I was then bored, so I put on a pair of gardening gloves and went to do some weeding. That led to hoing, and a couple of hour s later my hands were aching.

I cursed myself for forgetting, assuming that I had rubbed the top layer off with the work. However, when I took the glove off, the hand was perfect, the palm didn't hurt, (altho my hand looked and smelled revolting) so just washed it off and went on my way. Never developed a blister or anything.
In that case I'll be sure to keep a supply of onions and rubber gloves in stock.
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Old Jul 22nd 2011, 10:24 pm
  #124  
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Default Re: Vaccination

It's vaccine related fever.
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Old Jul 22nd 2011, 10:29 pm
  #125  
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Default Re: Vaccination

Originally Posted by jackytoo
There is no need to trawl all the sites run by nutters on the internet to see if vaccination works. The eradication of many diseases speaks for itself.

If we believed all those scaremongering sites we would all be walking around with plants around our necks and rubbing bleeding crushed dandelion leaves on our skin
Nicely summed up. Let's look at some of the dangerous diseases which have been effectively eliminated from our lives; smallpox, polio, TB, we have cause to be very grateful to Jenner and his successors.

Vaccination doesn't always work, vaccination sometimes causes problems, but if we all judged everything like that, where would we be? Is there anything that never goes wrong?

The intelligent person makes a decision based on calculation of risk, and people are notorious for being bad at risk assessment. It's what keeps lotteries in business.

Just because those deadly diseases have been pushed back onto the fringes of our lives doesn't mean we can relax. TB, especially drug resistant TB is making a major comeback. The White Death it was called, because it was so feared. Aids, wih the huge number of immune suppressed people it provides, has given TB a huge and fertile ground to grow strong in, and don't, whatever you do make the mistake in thinking that you and your children are safe because you don't associate with the homeless or the down and outs in which TB thrives. The homeless ride the underground, they rub shoulders with you or your associates and where they go, the White Death follows.

People who do not vaccinate their children should worry. Should their unvaccinated children catch this resistant TB, they face a very unsure future, as some strains are effectively untreatable. That would be their reward for failing to help the rest of us to maintain herd immunity. They seek to gain benefit from the risks we have to take with our children, a free ride, so to speak.

Personally, I don't like it, I know others on here don't either, and I assure you the medical profession doesn't like it either.

In society, we dislike those that take a free ride on the rest of us, taking benefit from the State without working for it. Amusingly some of us on here are very, very strident against benefit scroungers.

Ooooo. What's the word I'm looking for.....?

Last edited by bil; Jul 22nd 2011 at 10:38 pm.
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Old Jul 22nd 2011, 10:31 pm
  #126  
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Default Re: Vaccination

Originally Posted by jackytoo
It's vaccine related fever.
Yeah, but I was curious as to which part of the vaccine it was that caused it.

Vaccines are very complex, and contain stuff you wouldn't believe. There was a fascinating article in New Scientist that went into this. ' Clean', pure vaccines aren't as effective as so called 'dirty' ones, they were saying.
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Old Jul 22nd 2011, 10:38 pm
  #127  
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Default Re: Vaccination

Originally Posted by montgomail
In that case I'll be sure to keep a supply of onions and rubber gloves in stock.
People laugh when I say it, but why? I read about it in a magazine article, some guy biking thru Afghanistan burned himself on his primus stove, and an old Afghan woman made him wrap the burn in red onion skin, -the thin skin between the layers, and keep that on overnight. It cured his burn. I tend to remember odd stuff like that, and when I burned myself some time after that, I remembered. With the burn it was too much trouble to skin the onion, so I tried the juice.

The rest is history. It doesn't need to be a red onion, it doesn't need to be the thin skin. I think it works by supressing a domino effect, - the burn creates damage, the body reacts with histamines etc, these cause other chems to arrive, and somewhere in that chemical cascade, a blister is created.

The blister can't be created by the burn, because if it were, the onion couldn't stop it.

Sometimes, if the burn is bad, a dry blister will show a couple of weeks down the line, but by then the skin underneath is older and firmer, so it shouldn't crack.
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Old Jul 22nd 2011, 10:39 pm
  #128  
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Default Re: Vaccination

Originally Posted by jackytoo
I had shingles last year. Woke up one morning and it was in a line across my midriff to around my back. Spoke to Doctor on phone and said was it necessary to visit as I felt ok. He said come in as now they give anti-viral drugs and it prevents long term pain through nerve damage. I never had pain but the rash did get worse and took over two weeks to go. Never had pain although I do get an itch sometimes where the rash was on my back.
Glad you got over it so (comparatively) well. It can be bloody awful.
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Old Jul 22nd 2011, 10:54 pm
  #129  
 
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Default Re: Vaccination

Originally Posted by Fred James
It says:-

The most frequently reported adverse reactions are mild hypersensitivity reactions (such as rash), local reactions at the injection site, and influenza-like symptoms.


That sounds like the reactions to ANY vaccination and they are hardly life threatening.

We both have the flu jabs - it doesn't affect me but my OH gets a slight reddening at the jab site - goes away in 24 hours.

If you really want to frighten yourself over drug reactions look at the details for almost any common drug.
thought that was a normal reaction - I have had that with all sorts of innoculations across the world
or do some people believe that shouldn't happen ?
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Old Jul 22nd 2011, 11:16 pm
  #130  
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Default Re: Vaccination

Re: the onion on burns thing; in my world I would have to test that to make sure it was a real effect. Give yourself two burns, treat one with the onion and the other not and see which one healed best. Even better, get someone else to apply the onion and a placebo while you look away so you don't know which burn got the treatment (blinded placebo control). Even better a third person should inspect the burns who also doesn't know which burn was treated (double blinded placebo control). Finally do it to lots of randomly chosen people and you have the perfect trial - Large scale, randomised, double blinded, placebo controlled - the gold standard. Any treatment that hasn't passed a test like this cannot be trusted to be efficacious. sCAM treatments often don't pass or the sCAMmers don't bother testing because they know they won't pass.
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Old Jul 22nd 2011, 11:39 pm
  #131  
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Default Re: Vaccination

Originally Posted by jimenato
Re: the onion on burns thing; in my world I would have to test that to make sure it was a real effect. Give yourself two burns, treat one with the onion and the other not and see which one healed best. Even better, get someone else to apply the onion and a placebo while you look away so you don't know which burn got the treatment (blinded placebo control). Even better a third person should inspect the burns who also doesn't know which burn was treated (double blinded placebo control). Finally do it to lots of randomly chosen people and you have the perfect trial - Large scale, randomised, double blinded, placebo controlled - the gold standard. Any treatment that hasn't passed a test like this cannot be trusted to be efficacious. sCAM treatments often don't pass or the sCAMmers don't bother testing because they know they won't pass.
OK, oddly enough I have tried this. (To a degree.) The tests were carried out on myself. Here are the results.

Burns which are immersed in cold water alone, hurt for longer than when treated with onion. They always produce blisters.

The faster you apply the onion, the better. In a test where I received two similarly sized burns in similar places, the burns were received 1/4 to 1/2 and hour apart. Both were treated with the same onion, a couple of minutes after the second burn. The second burn healed faster and had no blister. The second burn developed a blister as per normal.

I haven't involved myself in any blind testing as I don't see it as being particularly necessary, or even practical. It works very well for me, and for other people who have used it promptly after a burn, and I would recommend to people most strongly.

Don't be put off because it seems a tad outré. It works, and can save you a lot of pain.

The
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Old Jul 23rd 2011, 12:06 am
  #132  
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Default Re: Vaccination

Originally Posted by bil



Should their unvaccinated children catch this resistant TB, they face a very unsure future, as some strains are effectively untreatable. That would be their reward for failing to help the rest of us to maintain herd immunity. They seek to gain benefit from the risks we have to take with our children, a free ride, so to speak.
TB vaccination has NOT been given routinely to UK children for some years now.
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Old Jul 23rd 2011, 12:23 am
  #133  
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Default Re: Vaccination

Originally Posted by whitelinen
TB vaccination has NOT been given routinely to UK children for some years now.
Really? I had no idea. Given the resurgence of TB, don't you think that's a tad reckless? I know we had our kids vaccinated against it, but that was decades ago.
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Old Jul 23rd 2011, 12:41 am
  #134  
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Default Re: Vaccination

Originally Posted by bil
People laugh when I say it, but why?

<Snip>
I wasn't laughing. For this to be effective, you would have to have the items to hand and today, for instance, I do not have either onions or rubber gloves in my house.
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Old Jul 23rd 2011, 12:46 am
  #135  
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Default Re: Vaccination

Originally Posted by montgomail
I wasn't laughing. For this to be effective, you would have to have the items to hand and today, for instance, I do not have either onions or rubber gloves in my house.
Because I do the occasional bit of welding, I make sure I have some around, plus, for the barbecue too. It's no hardship to have onions to hand, and if you dont have a glove, a plastic bag will do. Small burns, I don't use a glove, I just dab it on.

I didn't actually mean to include you in the laughing. I was referring to those who laugh it off as ridiculous without ever trying it.
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